Leading Hoses to Water......

[TOM4CWB]

SDG/Oneoff;

There is huge risk in selling to those whom you don't
have a PERSONAL long term relationship with.

When I buy products off kijiji... I provide a bank draft
with no questions asked IF I buy a product. Same goes
for sales to unknown folks... and NO ONE is insulted.
These are local transactions... but private folks are
normally reasonably upfront honest meaning we get
what we expected on sales or purchases.

I do not see why grain sales in the domestic market
should be any different.

One LOAD at a time with the cheque cut at time of
delivery. CASH the CHEQUE the DAY of delivery. I ask IF
there is money to cover the cheque... if it is not a bank
draft. It is very unusual for people to lie about this
when you look them STRAIGHT in the EYE and ask.
People are NOT offended but honest folks expect this
as a reasonable business minimum to cover risk.

Normal operating process... if you expect to be paid.

Offering 'Credit' to a buyer we do not have a long term
deep rooted relationship with (IE LAND backed security
to cover risk)... means very high risk.

Cheers

[TOM4CWB]

USING a Credit Card like Visa/Mastercard is another
alternative. If folks DO NOT take Visa... IT IS A
OBVIOUS sign they are high risk. VISA is a risk
management tool on either side of a transaction and
provides a high certainty of transaction security.
Consider this option... IF you are prone to large
domestic transactions.

[oneoff]

Excellent ideas tom; but we both know that blank cheques and exchanging credit card codes and their numbers doesn't fit in with standard business practices of say interprovincial feed grain sales or pulse crops for example.

The problems as presented to the seller (farmer) are as you know;

The buyer looks you back in the eye (if you can see him 300 to 3000 miles away and says, it hasn't been weighed yet; the final dockage hasn't been determined; the grade at unload is obviously unknown; it takes time for the trucker to submit this information; his dispatcher has to get it to our accounting, cheques and paperwork takes some time; payment nust be mailed and transferred and banks take time to clear payments. This all has to be be done to protect myself as seller..... and oh by the way; our contract involves more than this load; as buyer I've been stuck by disreputable farmers and you should understand that the standard period for payment is at least 7 to 20 Working days and I'm not esponsible for any delays caused by third parties, acts of god, flood, wars and uprisings.

You are absolutely right about the importance of immediate payment;and you will never get to that point by rationally arguing the concerns listed above by the garain dealer.

Tom...The fact remains that your common sense solutions are not industry practice; and that will willingly never never change .

If farmers are willing to assume the risk of bankers and financiers; then we must act like bankers and financiers. Otherwise we insist on exchange of "coin of the realm" for our loads of production being hauled away.

And the vast majority of farmers do not have a backbone (or brains)necessary to back up that demand.

[oneoff]

Its as simple as Not having payment in hand and having Lost sight of your product equals Risk.

[TOM4CWB]

Oneoff,

We will ALL pay much much more... if you want EVERY
transaction covered for the sale of Graded grain with
official CGC paperwork. If no official CGC paperwork...
there is NO way to stop fraud.

So.... there must be limitations on the security. If you
are selling interprovicially... deal with an insurable CGC
licensed buyer. SIMPLE. Or take the risk yourself...
because I truly believe it is unfair to ask me or
Canadian Tax payers to pay if things go sideway on
you.

If the buyer, you are selling to, is unstable enough that
you are worried about the last 10 percent of your
payment... perhaps that is good... that you limit
sales... and keep the funds on a VERY short leash and
current. I do NOT believe it is fair to ask my family to
pay the risk premium on that sale to you.

Cheers

[oneoff]

There's 100% at risk every time you have no money because it's considered standard industry practice. You think the Puritone experience is good for anyone; or the country?

You've never said it, but seed growers are exempt; just like the feedlots; so maybe thats where you are coming from. For the vast majority of the common growers of seeds; there is a need for a way to get paid upon delivery; or else have the buyer provide iron clad assurances that they will be able to fulfill payment obligations according to the agreed terms.

Am I missing something?. It seems there are only a couple handfuls of people who realize that the present system; and the poorly fleshed out alternatives are not constructed with grower needs at the core of those programs. And the answer isn't for everyone to have a different private system.

Its not as though I'm proposing ideas that would only be good for myself; and not provide the same benefits for my peers. Whether seed growers are our peers is up for persons such as Tom to decide for himself; but I don't get your concerns. Explain further.

[oneoff]

You've said this several times before Tom "If you
are selling interprovicially... deal with an insurable CGC
licensed buyer. SIMPLE. Or take the risk yourself... "
And I sincerely wonder if you are correct in insinuating and saying that only CGC "official grades" are covered by CGC licences and bonds. There is a class called "grain dealers" and they are not necessarily one of the four types of elevator facilities.

I think I could show you at least one example of how those business's CGC bond was paid out; and they were at least partly dealing in common feed grain with no Canada Grade associated.

I am no expert in this area; but not willing to put up with bullship such as cashing a government bond cheque is accepting that payment as full payment.

[TOM4CWB]

Oneoff,

Canada Feed is an official CGC grade.

There must be standards to have integrity for
evaluation.

IE; Was the sale for 48lb barley... or Canada Number 2
barley. The second is an official CGC graded
Designation and covers quality... the first only speaks
to Bu Weight and leaves much unspecified.

Sorry about the CWB comment... yet it is true.

Cheers

[Hopperbin]

Tom I wanted to stop a visa transaction once unrelated to farming. I was unable to. My only option was to report my card lost so as to stop further transactions for the moment. Visa is very much on top of transactions though and when people start reporting problems with fraud it is dealt with immediately but that has nothing to do with a farmer selling grain. If something is purchased using visa you cannot reverse or cancell the purchase, it is a done deal unless reversed by the other party. Are you suggesting that we take visa now for a 3 percent or what ever it is maybe 5 percent cost to secure payment?

[TOM4CWB]

Hopper,

I do this on select purchases (Ebay and Kijiji) simply
because there is a return policy and assured payment
to folks who sold me a product.

This is an option when selling seed... another being
'Agline' . There are many instruments to assure
payment if folks require that option.

Many retailers find a few percent up front is much
better than no payment. If a cheque is post dated...
credit is being offered... and if it bounces few options.

Getting a cheque the day of delivery and putting it in
the bank that day... is the best option.