Outcompeted by the Ukraine

[grassfarmer]

Interesting article from Country Guide:

[URL="http://www.country-guide.ca/2016/08/04/could-canada-be-out-competed-in-grain-by-ukraine/49346/?utm_source=FBC+Publications&utm_campaign=2cdad592 a5-Canadian+Cattlemen++Weekend+Stories+Oct+11%2C+2015 &utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_2da8244677-2cdad592a5-88078361"]http://http://www.country-guide.ca/2016/08/04/could-canada-be-out-competed-in-grain-by-ukraine/49346/?utm_source=FBC+Publications&utm_campaign=2cdad592 a5-Canadian+Cattlemen++Weekend+Stories+Oct+11%2C+2015 &utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_2da8244677-2cdad592a5-88078361[/URL]

Of particular interest to me is Table 3 - Producer support estimate (subsidies) as a percentage of gross farm receipts - Canada 14.3%, US 7.1%.

[ajl]

No doubt true, the only thing Canuckistan is competitive at producing is inflation. Our land price will have to be reduced by 75% to make us competitive again. Will happen eventually. Mind you I doubt Canada exists in 50 yrs. I noted how Canada get 78% of the grain value back to farmers while the US gets 90%. Function of our lousy geography. Big rock piles to the west compounded by bad government provided by big labor.

[grassfarmer]

I think it unlikely that land prices will be reduced by 75% or that Canada will cease to exist in 50 years.
Don't think these are likely solutions.

[farmaholic]

WAAAY back when i was still wet behind the ears in farming, I said we would be in trouble if that part of the world ever got their shit together. Thing is, I don't think it totally is yet...

[grassfarmer]

I'd always heard that about the Ukraine too - their quality of soil gives them a natural advantage.
I've always heard the US farmer was subsidised heavier than their Canadian counterpart but this information seems to refute that and nobody is challenging it?

[farmaholic]

Grassy....I never read the link so probably shouldn't responde. If we are more heavily subsidized it would be worth noting we are more heavily fed on by the parasites of the Industry as well. Also taxed heavier with all the hidden/built in taxes. Income tax?

[farmaholic]

....then is their claim of subsidies the Ag Industry as a whole or sector specific....how would grain, beef or pork compare on it's own without dairy, poultry and eggs increasing the average?

[Rareearth]

You nailed it!

Statistics , depends what story you want to convey. Each farming sector has its own challenges, that would be a interesting study paper.

[grassfarmer]

....then is their claim of subsidies the Ag Industry as a whole or sector specific....how would grain, beef or pork compare on it's own without dairy, poultry and eggs increasing the average?

It would appear to indicate the whole of agriculture and that's a whole other topic. It's easy to point to the "other guys" in the supply managed sector but only 8% of Canadian farms operate under supply management. Contrast that to crop farming on the prairies alone - all those millions of acres that I assume are nearly all covered by crop insurance? I'm new to crop insurance this year as I took crop coverage on a measly 70 acres of silage corn for grazing. My premium is $800 but the Prov. and Fed. Governments (read the taxpayer's) contribution is $1200. That's going to add up to huge sums across the vast acres in crop in western Canada.

Regardless of which sector is heaviest subsidized in Canada how does it compare to the US? Do they have a similar crop insurance program? I know they get free cover crop seed to encourage farmers to use it after their main crops are off.... then there used to be their "set aside" program where they get paid not to crop land. Anyone know what the US farmer gets that is considered less subsidy than the Canadian farmer gets?

[freewheat]

Regardless of which sector is heaviest subsidized in Canada how does it compare to the US? Do they have a similar crop insurance program? I know they get free cover crop seed to encourage farmers to use it after their main crops are off.... then there used to be their "set aside" program where they get paid not to crop land. Anyone know what the US farmer gets that is considered less subsidy than the Canadian farmer gets?

You should head over to Agtalk. They still have the crp program( set aside), they have ACRE, they have direct payments, they have the ldp program, they have massively better crop insurance, they have a grip program. They have an amazing unseeded acreage benefit called prevent plant. I believe there is another program called STEP? They have a farm credit program that makes our fcc look downright sad. I wonder how many I missed?

The point is, they have monster programs down there, so I doubt these numbers and comparisons between our countries very much. There is always someone on there chirping about when this payment or that payment comes. They do it very quietly, and I have to say those threads do not get a lot of attention, because I know some are quite embarrassed at how much they collect. I believe they have it all online, and the public can search out who gets funding and how much. It causes a big kerfuffel between the farmers and the public, because the amounts are absolutely MASSIVE.

I very, very highly doubt that canadian farmers are subsidized more than the americans. My gut says that something is very fishy?

[freewheat]

Also, their gross farm receipts are much, much higher than Canadian ag, so proportionately it is going to sway the results. When guys were selling 250 bushel corn at 6 or 7 bucks, there is a huge gross revenue relative to 35 canola at 10 or 12.

[LWeber]

http://www.keepeek.com/Digital-Asset-Management/oecd/agriculture-and-food/agricultural-policy-monitoring-and-evaluation-2016/canada-estimates-of-support-to-agriculture_agr_pol-2016-table25-en#.V7IvfNQrI0M

Transfer from consumers: Read that line and weep...

I'd like to know how many farmers that encompasses...as in how many dairy and feather farmers get that transfer.

Did the light come on yet or is it not interesting any longer?

[grassfarmer]

I'm interested but the light hasn't come on yet. Care to explain a little of what we are looking at in the table you provided?

[farmaholic]

I would like to know if those Crop Insurance Premium subsidies actually ever leave the Prov/Fed coffers IF THEY DON'T "HAVE" TO?

Something tells me the program is close to self funding by producer premiums alone.... but I have absolutely nothing to back that up. I wonder how many of total staff actually earn their keep? Maybe the Gov money is welfare for staff? LOL

[ajl]

Yes as other poster have pointed out it is all about supply managed industries in Canada skewing the government support figure. I would also like to see some transparency from crop insurance as who is getting all the money that supposedly the government is kicking in.