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For bucket re supply management

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    For bucket re supply management

    I saw your comment in another thread and thought I'd share my thoughts that I put in a letter to the MB Co-operator.

    To give you context the article I'm responding to was posted on a variety of news outlets including here at the Globe and Mail:

    [URL="http://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-on-business/rob-commentary/for-supply-managed-canada-reaching-ceta-is-the-easy-part/article32543875/"]http://http://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-on-business/rob-commentary/for-supply-managed-canada-reaching-ceta-is-the-easy-part/article32543875/[/URL]


    My letter:

    I’m responding to the article “Ratifying CETA was the easy part” by Sylvain Charlebois in the November 3rd edition of the Manitoba Co-operator. I’m unclear of the purpose of the article other than to encourage the destruction of the Supply Management (SM) system in dairy and the livelihoods of dairy farmers. When a Canadian welcomes the fact that CETA “creates a significant breach in the quota system” and that this change in turn will “destabilize Canada’s entire agricultural system” it raises the question of where the person’s loyalties lie.

    Generally when critics attack SM in the dairy sector they claim that the domestic consumer deserves to benefit from cheaper milk or cheese but that point was never made in this article. It’s interesting too that after saying that Canada’s SM sectors (plural) needed a wake up call the rest of the article talks only about the destruction of one sector - dairy. I always find it interesting that critics of SM in dairy don’t talk about SM of chicken. Perhaps because the very low cost of chicken at the retail counter belies their argument that SM always leads to more expensive food for consumers?

    The article forwards no valid arguments that Canada’s agriculture will benefit from CETA despite the damage to SM dairy. Mentioning that the EU is “desperate to find new markets for their food products” hints that we are likely to be importing, rather than exporting, more agricultural products. The claim that Canada’s cattle industry is desperate to reach new markets isn’t borne out by the facts as we already have thousands of tonnes of tariff free beef quota access to the EU going unfilled. The EU already produces more pork than it can consume. Grain and oilseeds exports don’t get a mention.

    The writer seems to have a fixation on “competitiveness” as if that is a goal in itself. What he is really advocating is dairy farmers getting less for their milk thus reducing their profitability and transferring this wealth instead to the processors or retailers.
    The disastrous collapse in global milk prices over the last year has proven that economy of scale, often touted as the way to increase competitiveness, is a flawed model in dairy. Farmers with thousand cow herds have been forced out of business in New Zealand, the USA and in Europe. In comparison, Canadian dairy farmers have continued to enjoy reduced, but still profitable prices.

    Why would any Canadian, and particularly fellow farmers, want to see the profitability of dairy farming reduced to the point that they need an off-farm job to support their farming business like so many in the beef and grain sectors do? It makes no sense especially when you consider there are unlikely to be gains for other sectors of Canadian agriculture and consumers are unlikely to see a reduction in the retail price of dairy products.

    #2
    Didn't read it all but my point is that it seems odd to be getting a payout even though they are a profitable business made up by preset quota.

    You can't just decide to be a dairy farm.


    Not sure grain farmers should be left out in a crisis.

    But I also know cattle farmers got ****ed during BSE with no help from government.


    Meanwhile bombardier will get 3 billion dollars to eliminate jobs.

    That's where I should have went with my comments .... at least dairy farmers are reinvesting and maintaining what jobs are left.

    Comment


      #3
      Bucket, cattle farmers did get compensation through various programs during BSE.

      I have seen no indication of what, if any, compensation may be forthcoming to dairy farmers. Thus far the Liberals seem to be talking down the compensation compared to what the PCs previously indicated. It is for the "dairy industry" so it is quite possible that much, or all of it, might go to processors. Rather like the substantial sums of money given to the beef processing companies during BSE.

      Comment


        #4
        I have been involved in cattle for quite a while .....don't remember compensation before during or after BSE.....could you enlighten me on what I missed?

        Comment


          #5
          Bucket, I think grassy meant the money went to the processors so they would treat us fairly and not take advantage of us at that time. Still have the $3 dollar cheque for a 1500 lb. young cull cow. Ya, they treated us right up the ass. Funny how all political stripes think this is the way to do it.

          Comment


            #6
            I do agree with the fact that CETA will result in more imports of EU dairy products. That will likely be marginally better for Canadian consumers. Overall I doubt CETA will do anything for Canada as oil is the only signifigant Canadian export. SM could be effective if they were smart enough to set the milk price low enough that the quota does not get bid up. The cost of carry on the quota ' investment' is just an additional cost that gets past on to consumers.

            Comment


              #7
              Originally posted by bucket View Post
              I have been involved in cattle for quite a while .....don't remember compensation before during or after BSE.....could you enlighten me on what I missed?
              Here is one reference to Federal compensation - I know there was Provincial assistance under different programs too

              Click image for larger version

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              Of course that's only part of the story as the packers were able to capture a huge amount of those sums. Like one of the first programs in AB that gave a Government top up of fed cattle prices and the packers promptly reduced their live cattle bids proportionately to capture the entire sum. The 2 big packers also received several substantial Government contributions to modernize, increase capacity and increase their "competitiveness".


              Originally posted by ajl View Post
              SM could be effective if they were smart enough to set the milk price low enough that the quota does not get bid up. The cost of carry on the quota ' investment' is just an additional cost that gets past on to consumers.
              And many dairy farmers would agree that the quota price is too high but how do you limit it? It's a bit like the run up in farmland values for grain farmers - despite the free market setting your grain price low it doesn't seem to cap the land price. If you set the milk price so low that they lose money or don't make enough to earn a living sure quota would fall in price - but would anyone be better off? And don't say the consumer because you know the retailers aren't going to drop the price of milk at the store. Why would they when consumers are buying now at the price it is at. Remember retailers are price setters not price takers like us.

              Comment


                #8
                Originally posted by bucket View Post
                I have been involved in cattle for quite a while .....don't remember compensation before during or after BSE.....could you enlighten me on what I missed?
                Dear Bucket, in 2003 and 2004, TISP and FIP Direct were two consecutive payments made to producers of livestock. I was involved with administering that program out of the Regina CAIs offoce. If my memory serves me correct, the first program paid $70/breeding cow and lower amounts for calves, deer, bison, etc. and FIP a second payment was $30/ head. This payment was triggered by Ralph Goodale. Just saying!

                Comment


                  #9
                  Never got either payment but 100 dollars a head wouldn't keep many in business anyway....when you were selling calves for sfa.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Where do u get your info from. I don't know of any cattlemen that received compensation for the BSE bullshit. It drove alot of good operators out of the business. If the 100 pennies some ranches got helped your dreaming. Your always spewing shit about all the subsidies farmers get. Haven't seen much of that. No crop ins, no agri stability, no agri invest money yet. All that money u say were getting sure ain't helping some of the farmers having a difficult time now.
                    I get a bit envious of most of the dairy farms I see when they get there monthly cheque. Which always seems to be a fair bit more than there expenses judging by the amount they are willing to pay for land. Which is always more than fair market value. They shud try and farm with more of the variables I/We have to deal with. No freebees or subsidized values.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Due to competition at the retail level I have seen the retail price fall from around 4.99 to 4.60 for a 4L jug of 2% milk in the supermarket over the last 3-4 yrs,

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Bucket i'm not saying that BSE compensation was generous or even adequate for the severity of the BSE crisis, but you can't deny compensation was paid.

                        Seabass however seems to want to deny the truth. Got to wonder if you actually farm if you don't know any cattlemen that received BSE compensation - I don't know any that didn't. But then he claims not to get even agri-invest money - have you sent in your contributions Seabass? couldn't be a simpler sure fire pay out program than Agri-invest. Pay in your contribution, have the Government match it then withdraw it. A double your money program with no strings attached!

                        You do realise the dairy farmers don't get a Government cheque every month? They get a cheque from the milk company for the product they deliver just like a rancher gets a cheque from the auction when he sells cattle or the grain farmer gets one from the grain company when he delivers grain. They still have to produce the product and suffer much the same weather risks the rest of us do. Why the hatred of other farmers being profitable - wouldn't we like all farms to be profitable? Instead of trying to tear down those who are doing well in a race to the bottom why not try and build the rest up? I believe that every farm policy developed by Governments should have increasing net farm profitability as the goal - if it doesn't meet that criteria don't proceed with it. Many of the past policies that were aimed at increasing Canadian exports for example gave no consideration to farm level profitability and now we wonder why profitability is a struggle for many farms.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Historically I find myself disagreeing with Grassfarmer. Today I think he is right on most points. First I see nothing in Ceta to benefit grain and beef farmers, as he states correctly we don't fill our quota of beef now. The EU has a non tariff barrier of requiring it to be hormone free beef which Canada by its own choice produces very little of.

                          As for supply management, it has always baffled me as to why Canadians want to dismantle a system that farmers can make a living under and we get Canadian produced food. If you eliminate supply management you will simply transfer more profit to processors and retailers and eliminate a good portion of Canadian dairy, poultry and egg producers.

                          As a beef farmer I don't remember getting direct government help during BSE, I believe it mostly went to the packers and feedlots which did trickle down to the calf producer. The Canadian public helped a lot by eating more beef during this period.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            I am not against supply management. ...it seems odd to be waiting for a buyout or payment when you are guaranteed to be a profitable entity in this country as a dairy producer.

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Originally posted by bucket View Post
                              I am not against supply management. ...it seems odd to be waiting for a buyout or payment when you are guaranteed to be a profitable entity in this country as a dairy producer.
                              I am, nothing's personal against dairy farmers but supply management mostly benefits the east at the expense of the west. We could have a viable domestic and export industry out here which would be good for everyone. Its not just about dairy also chicken and eggs. Hate that milk is 1.5-2x what it should be in the store, so financially challenged families are more likely to choose unhealthy beverages.

                              Comment

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