Our Pm has a plan and its a Bad Bad Plan!

[foragefarmer]

AF5

'Now, I break the marginal ground and it is by far the best. And I intend look after it to keep it that way too. Some just takes a little more work due to other limitations. "


Was the land previously broken by past generations classified as margin land to being with? Land that has been assigned a certain soil classification, and if it's classification is marginal, can not improve it's classification by simply being broken and taken care of. Is the land you speak of irrigated?

[grassfarmer]

The article definitely does acknowledge the yeild and drought tolerance benefits to plants with increased CO2. Not sure how this refutes my statement?

And it also acknowledged that there was a downside - larger than the upside. Here for example:

"The regional climate changes that higher CO2 will bring, and their effect on these limiting factors on plant growth, such as water, also have to be taken into account. These indirect effects are likely to have a much larger impact than CO2 fertilisation."

Now, I break the marginal ground and it is by far the best. And I intend look after it to keep it that way too.

I think you will be depleting it more slowly but just as surely as your forbearers did the better land - if you are using conventional modern grain farming methods. The sprays and chemical fertilizer kill the soil micro-biology. Even with zero-till farmers are about holding their ground with OM levels not building them to pre farming levels.

If the purpose is to transfer wealth from west to east, then it is safe to say Ag would not be exempt.

Yeah, but that isn't the purpose. No-one is talking a federal carbon tax regime it's going to be provincial and it will be revenue neutral meaning there will be no money leaving the provinces. So it's just a fear mongering myth that it's a tax on the "west" by the "east".

[blackpowder]

Well grass your holistic land management is to be commended as it is the future.
But if Canadas' forests and crops sequester more carbon than its pop emits. Why then at 36m people try to "lead the way" when China, India etc and for now the US are more concerned with what pays the bills?
Pollution and waste are never right. But this is wrong.

[tweety]

It's a punitive tax, like a tobacco tax - a tax imposed to discourage a behaviour.

So what you are saying is it should only be on recreational carbon emissions?

Am i supposed to put ferry dust in my combine fuel tank? Have it run on for free on its more powerful left wing to push it along? Hopes and dreams? How exactly will it discourage "fuel consumption behavior" in agriculture?

[grassfarmer]

So what you are saying is it should only be on recreational carbon emissions?

Am i supposed to put ferry dust in my combine fuel tank? Have it run on for free on its more powerful left wing to push it along? Hopes and dreams? How exactly will it discourage "fuel consumption behavior" in agriculture?

No, it should be on all emissions. By default the frivolous and wasteful uses would be curbed first (recreational / excessive vehicle idling etc) more necessary uses would be reduced to a lesser extent. You still need to run the combine but maybe not over that poorer quarter that would be better seeded to grass. On our own operation we try to have our cattle harvest their own feed as long as possible and usually mechanically feed for 100 days versus the 200 our neighbours do. I still see huge wastage of fuel here - maybe it's the contrast to Europe where fuel is twice the price.

[katoe]

If all of this is pure bullshit i hope none of you are selling your carbon credits.I hope you walk the walk.

[checking]

Pyramids are basically configured solid rock piles with shafts leading to pre-industrial sequestered carbon chambers.

You and Trudeau know all about shafting people with carbon taxation. Really, you should let his government own this!

If you would have god call back his carpenter perhaps he would clear your Ottawa temple of the carbon tax collectors.

[tweety]

No, it should be on all emissions. By default the frivolous and wasteful uses would be curbed first (recreational / excessive vehicle idling etc) more necessary uses would be reduced to a lesser extent. You still need to run the combine but maybe not over that poorer quarter that would be better seeded to grass. On our own operation we try to have our cattle harvest their own feed as long as possible and usually mechanically feed for 100 days versus the 200 our neighbours do. I still see huge wastage of fuel here - maybe it's the contrast to Europe where fuel is twice the price.

What a crock of horseshit. In our affluent society the cost is just absorbed and the use continues. No carbon emissions saved. You could make cigs 50 dollars a carton and most would still smoke.

Grow grass? Seriously? If a carbon tax pushes you over the break even point, auction sale time

[AlbertaFarmer5]

AF5

'Now, I break the marginal ground and it is by far the best. And I intend look after it to keep it that way too. Some just takes a little more work due to other limitations. "


Was the land previously broken by past generations classified as margin land to being with? Land that has been assigned a certain soil classification, and if it's classification is marginal, can not improve it's classification by simply being broken and taken care of. Is the land you speak of irrigated?

Most of this would be virgin. Its classification cannot be improved, but the productivity of the higher classed ground has certainly declined. Productivity of all is improving faster than I thought possible by improving the OM. No Till, returning all straw, hauling in OM in any form I can find.

[seabass]

Damn rights tweety! Maybe they shud tax grass's cows for farting. See how profittable growing grass alone is when u have a methane meter on every cows ass.

[grassfarmer]

What a crock of horseshit. In our affluent society the cost is just absorbed and the use continues. No carbon emissions saved. You could make cigs 50 dollars a carton and most would still smoke.

Grow grass? Seriously? If a carbon tax pushes you over the break even point, auction sale time

That's because you haven't seen the cost set high enough to deter usage yet. If fuel doubled in price and the energy component of producing N fertilizer doubled emissions would be reduced. In reality the $50 ton carbon tax isn't going to cut it - more likely a $100-$200 value will be needed.

[tweety]

That's because you haven't seen the cost set high enough to deter usage yet. If fuel doubled in price and the energy component of producing N fertilizer doubled emissions would be reduced. In reality the $50 ton carbon tax isn't going to cut it - more likely a $100-$200 value will be needed.

You do realize what you are proposing is the absolute in wealth control. Making poorer people, and by poorer i mean 80% of Canada, completely unable to buy food, drive a vehicle, get to work.... The well off will always afford it. Just charge $100 a liter for fuel, then next to no carbon will be emitted and we all starve and freeze to death. All the while our neighbours across the line to the south have no carbon tax. Only you and the very rich will survive. Great plan.

You obviously have in no way thought this through. If you had, you wouldn't be posting such absolute stupidity.

[SASKFARMER3]

Tweety we don't agree on alot but this time you hit the nail on the head.

If the USA and Russia and China and Australia and South America and France all don't have a Carbon Tax and Canada does it will kill our economy literally drive a nail into it.

I ask grass what does that mean I am a bad polluter as I have had to dry about 30% of our grain this fall in November as October wasn't a great month to harvest. So I should of used wind and Air to dry it. Oh we didn't see the sun for some 21 days and no wind.

The rich like Leo and Al Gore etc will pretend to do stuff. Pay a fee to play yet sit on Private planes and ships telling us all what to do. Its a total crock of shit.

The poorest of poor in Canada will be hit hard and Us farmers will have to spend extra and get nothing in return. Compete against countries with none.

Wow its a no brainer yet some sing from the Liberal song sheet.

[sumdumguy]

In Marakesh, the UN yesterday scolded Canada and accused us of hypocracy because of Trudeau's exhuberant stance in Paris last year, then following up by approving an LNG plant in BC and suggesting a pipeline to move fossil fuels to market. Think Trudeau will figure it out now? I'd bee line out of there so fast with big letters on back of my jacket , "Piss Off, I've got a country to run!". How can't they see what the UN is trying to do? Sheep to slaughter.

[grassfarmer]

Folks, its going to be revenue neutral. Money doesn't leave the province, doesn't leave the country so it doesn't hinder our competitiveness against other countries.