Interesting article - water and climate change

[grassfarmer]

Klause,

Christine Jones, acknowledged world expert on soil carbon, not just someone who wrote a thesis on it.
33T perH/yr sequestered and measured.

[URL="http://soilcarboncoalition.org/files/JONES-Carbon-that-counts-20Mar11.pdf"]http://http://soilcarboncoalition.org/files/JONES-Carbon-that-counts-20Mar11.pdf[/URL]

I realise now that you and some others are under the misapprehension that only man made CO2 emissions should be considered. Not so - it is about total CO2 concentration in the atmosphere and how we can reduce it. Hence the false difference you are claiming while comparing cattle to wild ungulates. Absolutely the wildlife's total CO2 emissions are real and need to be considered just as the cattle's are. If we decide to have no cattle you'd better be prepared to count the emissions from the deer and the moose that will take over as well as the emissions from the natural decay of grassland they graze to get a fair comparison. At the moment most accounting charges that natural decay to the cattle as well as your grain farmer costs of growing the grain to feed in the feedlot - all blamed on the cattle in almost all research I've read.

[Klause]

Go talk to the guys that are doing it.




Been trying for several days but I guess you're still not catching on so i'll leave it for someone with skills in teaching remedial pupils.

Actually I'd like to talk to the scientists that did an independent, peer-reviewed study about the amount of carbon sank by "holistic" managed cattle.


Not some wild willy-nilly claims that have absolutely no basis in reality.


Here's carbon 101. The amount sank by a given plant per year can never exceed the amount of plant material (above and below ground), on a dry matter basis produced by that plant over the course of a year.

[blackpowder]

Wow, 'my scientist is better than yours'.
See how easy it is??
Makes me glad in a way I can plead ignorance.
Who did I see touting Dr. Jones' work before???
Holistic yes, but Holy Cow?
We must at times defend our neighbor or there will be no one left to defend us.

[AlbertaFarmer5]

[QUOTE=
We must at times defend our neighbor or there will be no one left to defend us.[/QUOTE]

My thoughts exactly, if we farmers can't present a united front against this attack on our livelihood, and would prefer to point fingers at eachother, as we are doing here, then we don't stand a chance against the organized and united machine that is anti EVERYTHING we do.

And I do agree that the facts used to argue that cattle are so inefficient do not look at the entire lifecycle. A cow vs a chicken in the same cage, the chicken wins, but a cow on land ill suited to any other purpose vs a chicken in a cage and the cow wins.

[grassfarmer]

Here's carbon 101. The amount sank by a given plant per year can never exceed the amount of plant material (above and below ground), on a dry matter basis produced by that plant over the course of a year.

Earth 101 used to proclaim it is was flat too.

[blackpowder]

Where did all the carbon come from and go to pre-industry?
Why/how did it fluctuate so much?
Luckily, given enough time, it didnt naturally sequester itself to zero.

If something looks, sounds, and smells like a crusade; is it not one just because we are told so?
Nothing new in human behaviour at all I'm afraid.

[WiltonRanch]

Wow, 'my scientist is better than yours'.
See how easy it is??
Makes me glad in a way I can plead ignorance.
Who did I see touting Dr. Jones' work before???
Holistic yes, but Holy Cow?
We must at times defend our neighbor or there will be no one left to defend us.

Well said. Alright to have some spirited debate though at the end of the day the ag community is so fractured that there is no way we could ever lobby with a truly unified voice.

[WiltonRanch]

And I do agree that the facts used to argue that cattle are so inefficient do not look at the entire lifecycle. A cow vs a chicken in the same cage, the chicken wins, but a cow on land ill suited to any other purpose vs a chicken in a cage and the cow wins.

You nailed it! A cow may be inefficient in an intensive scale but put her in an extensive situation grazing rock strewn hilly or brushy land and there is nothing else other than fellow ruminants which can convert inedible grasses, legumes, and brush to high quality protein with little to no outside inputs. Couple that with 80% she eats goes out the back to fertilize the ground again. Managed right with enough legumes to supply nitrogen, this system has worked for hundreds of years. If calves were grown out on grass and finished up the last 100 days in the feedlot that is about as efficient as it gets. As well if cows graze crop residue as long as winter allowed and are fed enough grain and supplement ie ddg screening pellets the system gets cheaper. The crop residue is cycled through Bessie and its plant available the following year as opposed to sitting there and having to Salford the crap into the ground. I don't really have an idea or care about carbon blah blah but I measure environmental efficiency in more efficient use of resources to produce something. Like zero tillage or swath grazing etc.