Saskatchewan Premier Brad Wall stands alone against federal carbon-pricing plan

[chuckChuck]

And what about Michael Chong the Conservative Leadership Candidate who wants to impose a large carbon tax, cut income and corporate taxes? Is he a swine too? And Brian Pallister a Progressive Conservative premier who wants to impose a cap and trade system for carbon emissions. All swine?

You still haven't answered the question why Brad Wall wants 50% renewables by 2030? Is it because you don't like the answer?

[parsley]

Parsley I forgot to mention since Brad Wall is taking political donations from the Alberta oil industry and is "indebted" to them and allows former cabinet members like Boyd to defraud taxpayers in the GTH land deals, is he any better than Merkel? Perhaps Brad is a eine kleine schwein

Too much Indebtedness to other countries to fund climate change schemes is dangerous. Borrowed money has to be repaid.

I didn't know political donations had to be repaid...

you're grasping, chuckchuck. address affordability. Debt. Replacement costs for Canadian wealth creators. That is what you are. A wealth creator.

Welfare recipients living in the cities will not be replacing anything except their welfare cheques for a larger one. And they won't be paying carbon taxes. Not income tax, either.

Act like an adult and acknowledge the unaffordability of the national replacement of our entire energy source.

pars

[furrowtickler]

What is the percentage decrease in the co2 emissions with the new DEF systems on Ag machinery?
Say a 15 year old pre emissions tractor to a new teir 4 ?
What tech is out there to replace diesel power on a mass scale ?
I know Agco is working on a electric drive system for sprayers. But is very expensive, heavy and unreliable.
Just woundering how our next generation of farmers are going to do the job needed? I am 45 and getting concerned about the future of my kids and agriculture with this big push to kill fossil fuels.
That's if there is still a future before we get taxed to death on top of paying for massive increases in machinery costs for emission systems that are unreliable and very costly to maintain.
Food production costs are going to sky rocket in this green revolution with no way to pass those costs on. The average wage earner does not care , just go buy an electric car , install solar panels , put up a wind mill and save the planet...
The greenies better put their thinking caps on who to feed 7-8 billion people without diesel. They may kill the modern efficient farm and run out of food before they think by going too far with eliminating fossil fuels . Take that electric car to get groceries at the farmers market only to find that we have been forced out of business - then watch the deer in the headlights 👀 .
This "agenda" is being forced on us too fast before logical , efficient, cheap replacement power is available.
No one is going back to the horse and plow to produce food for yuppies on a mass scale that's gaureteed.
.
As farmers we need to push for bio diesel now more than ever before we are trying to seed with a Prius hybrid. There is nothing on the shelf to replace the diesel power we need . If you farm at all this should be alarming to say the least.
Look around your yard chucky , if you farm , and think how is it possible??
I agree there has been leaps and bounds made with alternative energy with solar and wind to reduce pollution. But where do we as farmers fit in short term ?
This carbon tax is a farce and will do nothing to change climate - that's the point. It will only further cripple Ag producers .

[parsley]

And what about Michael Chong the Conservative Leadership Candidate who wants to impose a large carbon tax, cut income and corporate taxes? Is he a swine too? And Brian Pallister a Progressive Conservative premier who wants to impose a cap and trade system for carbon emissions. All swine?

You still haven't answered the question why Brad Wall wants 50% renewables by 2030? Is it because you don't like the answer?

Merkel is a swine for obtaining loans in return for dishing out citizenship papers and closing her eyes to border laws.

Can you stay on point?

[parsley]

And what about Michael Chong the Conservative Leadership Candidate who wants to impose a large carbon tax, cut income and corporate taxes? Is he a swine too? And Brian Pallister a Progressive Conservative premier who wants to impose a cap and trade system for carbon emissions. All swine?

You still haven't answered the question why Brad Wall wants 50% renewables by 2030? Is it because you don't like the answer?

Michael Chong is not a conservative. Small c. He is as socialist.

[chuckChuck]

Levelized Cost and Levelized Avoided Cost
of New Generation Resources in the Annual Energy Outlook 2016

http://www.eia.gov/forecasts/aeo/pdf/electricity_generation.pdf

Parsley the numbers are in the above link. Let me know when you are done your number analysis.

[chuckChuck]

Parsley this thread is about a carbon price and brad wall. Stick to the discussion. Find another thread if you want to go on about Merkel, immigration, etc.

The numbers you requested are in the link above. Get your pencil out!

Where is your answer on Brad Wall and 50% renewables by 2030? Still waiting! Are you going to avoid it for ever?

[chuckChuck]

Furrow it is obvious that agriculture will need more time to adjust. No one is suggesting a huge quick changeover in agriculture.

But we can be much more efficient with our resource use, whether it be with crop rotations, nitrogen fertilizers, fuel, or electricity. Higher prices will drive change and efficiency. Agriculture will be come more efficient. Technology will change as it becomes available.

The biggest changes will apply to consumers. Renewable electricity. Electric cars. Fuel Cells. Did you know Toyota says it will be emission free by 2050 with its production and all its vehicles using hydrogen fuel cells. That is hard to believe, but if they come anywhere close it is a game changer to be sure.

There will still be a need for fossil energy in many industries for a long while.

[chuckChuck]

COMPARISON OF ELECTRICITY PRICES
IN MAJOR NORTH AMERICAN CITIES
http://www.hydroquebec.com/publications/en/docs/comparaison-electricity-prices/comp_2015_en.pdf

You will note that in all the complaining about Ontario electricity prices it looks like Regina, Ottawa, Toronto residential prices were about the same between 14-15 cents per kwh in 2015.

The problem in Rural Ontario is that they charge very high delivery charges which drives up rural costs. This was a mistake and should have been corrected with averaging out the costs of delivery for all residents.

[parsley]

Parsley this thread is about a carbon price and brad wall. Stick to the discussion. Find another thread if you want to go on about Merkel, immigration, etc.

The numbers you requested are in the link above. Get your pencil out!

Where is your answer on Brad Wall and 50% renewables by 2030? Still waiting! Are you going to avoid it for ever?

Carbon pricing is a direct offshoot from climate change.

Canada cannot afford to embrace climate change taxes or replace oil with new, untested, unrefined sources of energy.

We are already an overly-indebted nation.

I'll leave you with that thought for a few days. It seems to take people awhile to absorb, "We can't afford it". After all, it's 2016.

Parsley.

[checking]

Do as I say, not as I do.

You are not a hypocrite, are you chuckChuck?

Promoters/leaders are ahead of the curve. Your expertise appears to be dovetailing agriculture with reduced GHG emitting technologies. I think that should require your on farm test.

Care to share your reduced carbon footprint that causes you to believe your posted years to decades energy shifts?

[chuckChuck]

Energy use and efficiency in two Canadian organic and conventional crop production systems

J.W. Hoeppner (a1), M.H. Entz (a1), B.G. McConkey (a2), R.P. Zentner (a2) ...
DOI: https://doi.org/10.1079/RAF2005118
Published online: 01 February 2007

Abstract

A goal in sustainable agriculture is to use fossil fuel energy more efficiently in crop production. This 12-year study investigated effects of two crop rotations and two crop production systems (organic versus conventional management) on energy use, energy output and energy-use efficiency. The grain-based rotation included wheat (Triticum aestivum L.)–pea (Pisum sativum L.)–wheat–flax (Linum usitatissimum L.), while the integrated rotation included wheat–alfalfa (Medicago sativa L.)–alfalfa–flax. Energy use was 50% lower with organic than with conventional management, and approximately 40% lower with integrated than with the grain-based rotation. Energy use across all treatments averaged 3420 MJ ha−1 yr−1. Energy output (grain and alfalfa herbage only) across treatments averaged 49,947 MJ ha−1 yr−1 and was affected independently by production system and crop rotation. Energy output in the integrated rotation was three times that of the grain-based rotation; however, this difference was largely due to differences in crop type (whole plant alfalfa compared with grain seed). Energy output was 30% lower with organic than with conventional management. Energy efficiency (output energy/input energy) averaged to 17.4 and was highest in the organic and integrated rotations. A significant rotation by production system interaction (P<0.05) indicated that energy efficiency increases due to crop input reduction (i.e., shift from conventional to organic management) were greater in the integrated than in the grain-based rotation. Greater energy efficiency in the integrated rotation under organic management was attributed to the fact that the forage component was less sensitive to chemical input removal than grain crops.

[furrowtickler]

Reminds me of all the facts presented of Iraq having WMD's , or the MSM stating all the polls had Hillary ahead by miles....
All B/S based on some deeper agenda.

[checking]

Goodness me, chuckChuck.

Nothing current.

I mean this is like comparing encyclopedia technology to the internet, and we know which one won out.

I take from this that you are in no way against the use of fossil fuels, only that they be used efficiently on our farms. I see all hands go up.

If you are messaging that organics is the only efficient use, then you've been consuming too many alfalfa sprouts!

[chuckChuck]

2007 is relatively current research. Unless your eyesight is failing and you read 1907?

Most of your current farming is based on older research results.

If you have a counter argument present it. Lets see the science that you use to base your enlightened views on.

Or you seem to prefer personal attacks which is usually an indicator that you have little to add to the discussion.