"Luddites (person opposed to increased industrialization or new technology)

[oneoff]

Sorry I missed the "crotchety old farmer" comment. Maybe should repeat above post, but since its a classic, it should be saved for appropriate times and not get worn out by needless repeating.

[chuckChuck]

Wow I didn't know you are all so sensitive. I am getting pretty grizzled and crotchety my self!

The point is the food companies and consumers drive demand for products. Whether you agree with their choices is irrelevant. Most consumers are not living on farms and have very different motivations than us farmers.

I know it is always easier to view the world in black and white. But I personally have said that gmos or gene technology may have a place in organic agriculture once they offer significant advantages to consumers or organic producers. This hasn't happened yet.

Right now we have mostly gmo varieties that offer herbicide resistance which has value to non-organic farms. Otherwise there are no varieties that offer much that can't be developed by more conventional breeding techniques.

When did I say we are going to stop using fossil fuels any time soon. I know its is fun for many of you to exaggerate. But advocating moving towards cleaner forms of renewable energy in a measured affordable way is not the same as saying no fossil fuels.

As you have seen, I posted the long term cost of energy comparisons that show renewables like wind and solar have come down a lot in cost. Even Brad Wall is investing in wind and solar. So is North Dakota. Does that mean we will stop using fossil energy? No! We will all be long dead before that happens.

Just because we build some wind mills and put of some solar panels many of you seem to think you are going to freeze in the dark!

Did the world end when you started using a smart phone with a lithium battery? Or would you rather go back to the dial up land line for all your communication?

Get a grip!

[tweety]

Organic food is sold to rich white people. Lots of companies jumping on the bandwagon to get a piece of that.

Really quite simple actually, organic is the pinnacle of white privilege.

[oneoff]

First a note to self

Do not argue with Luddites et al or idiots....they will drag you down to their level and beat you with their experience.

To the extent that does not apply ...these comments are offered.

"But I personally have said that gmos or gene technology may have a place in organic agriculture once they offer significant advantages to consumers or organic producers. This hasn't happened yet.

Right now we have mostly gmo varieties that offer herbicide resistance which has value to non-organic farms. Otherwise there are no varieties that offer much that can't be developed by more conventional breeding techniques."

My comment is that is a hollow concession. To whom did you confide that personal conclusion...albiet with the important caveat of the word "MAY". Just like approving a pipeline that is sure to have insurmountable obstacles; there isn't enough time or wasted efforts to get things done in rest of a lifetime. There would be just as much outrage and back peddling with a variety of rice extremely rich in Vitamin A as any equally beneficial GMO variety in the future. And you should know that there won't be just a few traits in new GMO varieties in the future that will be judged by the public consumers. Only the excuses of diminishing biodiversity; organic food customers complaints and a public which much more is uninformed (than either you or I) and completely brainwashed need be addressed.
What is potentially or actually troubling you is that as the other saying goes about a certain profession.....you're just haggling about the price. What part of "No GMO's and hormones and "non-organic compounds and outright bans on GMO traits by certifying agencies and processors" don't you understand.

I invite you to edit your comment about "There are no varieties that offer much that can't be developed by more conventional breeding techniques". That is about the most outrageous lie that I've ever heard.

You tell me the list of ways that you can inject traits across the plant/animal barriers and then I'll bare my soul about agreeing and enter into a discussion about " just because something can be done doesn't mean its wise to hastily jump into a dilema or catastrophe"

Looks to me like it would be necessary to take painstaking baby steps to forge a foundation on which to have a reasonable conversation.

But at least its clear what drives a carbon tax plan...and its to make it so expensive that someone is forced to use less. I've got a pretty good idea that isn't going to be either you or me. But I won't be trying to make money off the carbon tax program.