Sask Power CCS (some details typically not reprinted)

[stonepicker]

Hamloc I believe you are drastically wrong on two fronts. First is the fact that Canada's emissions are only a small part of the worlds total hence it is not worth us doing anything. Obviously it will take a global collective effort and claiming that we ourselves can't solve it so it's better to do nothing is a pathetic cop out.
Secondly you seem to underestimate the effect of temperature fluctuation. Research the "year without a summer" (1816) where the average global temperature decreased by 0.4-0.7C and brought catastrophic results to agriculture leading to people starving in several countries/continents. This case should be a real wake up call to how little temperature change it takes to precipitate a catastrophe.

Your out to lunch grass farmer. You can average all you want, but you leave out the lows ( a lot of frosts ) and half a degree wouldn't have caused that. The big problem was a huge volcanic explosion which cooled everything off far more than half a degree avg. ( remember mount pinatubo and its effects? ) The world was in a long term cooling trend for a few hundred years, are you telling me that over 300 years that the avg world temp. only dropped less than half a degree? Because if it was more then by your theory there shouldn't have been crops for a couple hundred years. Out to lunch.

[grassfarmer]

Grass has a new shed full of diesel powered equipment and produces one of the highest carbon contributing foods there is beef. He is established and comfortable what about the next generation of farmers they wont be so lucky under the carbon tax regime.

Hardly - I just got my old tractor rebuilt in time for its 30th birthday. Sitting in the shed alone. Building my systems around only needing to run it for 2-3 hours once every 3 days in winter. Sequestering more CO2 than we produce through our grazing management. Doing more than most to ensure there is a future generation of farmers on the land. Opposite of you climate change denial neanderthals.

[grassfarmer]

You can average all you want, but you leave out the lows ( a lot of frosts ) and half a degree wouldn't have caused that. The big problem was a huge volcanic explosion which cooled everything off far more than half a degree avg.

Not my facts stonepicker - the generally accepted facts of the scientific community. Why are you manipulating the data or do you have some superior knowledge of the events of 1816?

[stonepicker]

Not my facts stonepicker - the generally accepted facts of the scientific community. Why are you manipulating the data or do you have some superior knowledge of the events of 1816?

Who's manipulating data? I'm using common sense. The pinatubo eruption of '91' cooled the global temp. by one degree F. ,how come we still grew crops? By your statements, it should have brought catastrophe. It was a very cool summer and it sure felt like summer was more than one degree cooler! '91' eruption had an affect for 2or3 years according to the experts. And i have no doubt that history will prove that you are the neandrathal when it comes to your belief in manmade climate change.

[Hamloc]

Grassfarmer with zero till we are also a net sequesterer of carbon so don't feel like the Lone Ranger!

One interesting thing I found out about the Albertay carbon tax today. I have a neighbor with a coal stoker furnace in his shop. Jan 1 2017 35$ a tonne carbon tax on stoker coal. Goes up to 53$ a tonne on Jan 1 2018. Obviously will have to replace the furnace at some point. More cost more cost!

[greybeard]

Like Grassfarmer I'm a big believer in sequestering CO2.
I live within 20 miles of the northern forest. It might be considered a significant carbon sink as it goes about 8hrs north when flying transcontinental.
Rarely see a single light emitting carbon, but when you do the emissions per person must be off the chart.
If they put money in an envelope they can buy carbon credits from Africa or California.
Solves that personal emission problem.
I like reading The Economist to get a more worldly view of current events.
If you type " Is it climate change or just the weather "into your and chose the article from The Economist you get a starting point. The gold is in the comments. DON'T MISS THE COMMENTS on any global warming article in the The Economist.

[grassfarmer]

Who's manipulating data? I'm using common sense. The pinatubo eruption of '91' cooled the global temp. by one degree F. ,how come we still grew crops? By your statements, it should have brought catastrophe. It was a very cool summer and it sure felt like summer was more than one degree cooler! '91' eruption had an affect for 2or3 years according to the experts. And i have no doubt that history will prove that you are the neandrathal when it comes to your belief in manmade climate change.

You - claiming that if you discount the frosts the temperature excluding those must have fallen more than half a degree. I don't know - wasn't around then, doubt you were either so i'm inclined to rely on best projections of the scientific community versus a farmer trying to score points on an internet chat forum.

Grassfarmer with zero till we are also a net sequesterer of carbon so don't feel like the Lone Ranger!

Could you provide some scientific data to back up that claim? I haven't seen anything yet that indicated zero till makes you a net sequesterer when you include the inputs used for the whole production system - diesel, gas to make fertiliser, energy used to make the machinery etc etc.
Also have you got proof of the cost implication of the carbon tax in AB on natural gas prices?

[Hamloc]

Grassfarmer, for about the last 9 years we could sell carbon credits based on approx. 1 tonne of sequestered carbon for every 6 acres as long as your using an opener with less than 40% disturbance. As for proof of this I would assume there is an Alberta government website with this info.

As for the cost on natural gas it is posted right on the Alberta climate leadership website. At the 20$ a tonne carbon price the carbon tax is 1.01$ per gigajoule and it goes up approximently 50 cents per gigajoule for every 10$ a tonne increase in the price of carbon. Therefore when it reaches 50$ per tonne the price of 2.50$ a gigajoule. This will be nationwide once the national carbon tax kicks in.

As for coal my neighbor wast contacted by his coal supplier from Forestburg to inform him of the upcoming cost increases due to the carbon tax.

[stonepicker]

No, i was saying if temps. only fell half a degree why were there so many frosts in 1816? Common sense . How come crops didn't freeze out in '91' ( pinatubo ) ? by your theory of half a degree cooler in 1816 we should of froze out in '91' You nit-picked the half degree C and made it a theory that makes a drastic change worldwide. It doesn't. Major volcanic eruptions were to blame both times.

[Hamloc]

I forgot propane is 3 cents a litre at 20$ a tonne, rising to 7.5 cents a litre at 50$ a tonne.

As for cattle Google Leonardo Decaprio and banning beef. There is a movement in India to ban the raising and consumption of beef. Leonardo is on board and if you think it will remain isolated to India you are very optimistic. If you give people an inch they will take a mile my Dad always said!

[grassfarmer]

Grassfarmer, for about the last 9 years we could sell carbon credits based on approx. 1 tonne of sequestered carbon for every 6 acres as long as your using an opener with less than 40% disturbance. As for proof of this I would assume there is an Alberta government website with this info.

Of course I'm sure as none of you believe in climate change or Government interference or subsidies you all firmly refused to take part in the program and were all raising hell with your MPs and MLAs to have it stopped. Funny I never heard a peep along those lines though - did anyone else?

Here is a good paper on the zero-till/climate change topic.

[URL="http://libcatalog.cimmyt.org/download/cis/99206.pdf"]http://http://libcatalog.cimmyt.org/download/cis/99206.pdf[/URL]

[Hamloc]

Actually Grassfarmer I participated for one year and then I decided it was a greater pain in the ass than it was worth. Did you watch the you tube video of Leonardo wanting to ban beef? Unfortunately you can preach all that you wish about the carbon sequestration benefits of properly managed grazing but by far the majority of environmentalists are against the production of meat especially beef, just the way it is.