Sask Power CCS (some details typically not reprinted)

[grassfarmer]

First off Grassfarmer what I stated was that with the predicted continued world wide rise in C02 emissions through 2040 it would appear to me that the predicted rise in global temperatures is locked in. Therefore we should be targeting our money at adaptation to this reality. Instead we are loading our resources on to ships sending them to China and then having them send back solar panels and windmills. We are burning fuel both ways, creating the jobs in China and pretending we are saving the world. We are creating a higher tax environment that exports jobs to lower tax lower cost jurisdictions.

At present I pay $5.45 a gigajoule for natural gas through my local co-op to heat my house. The 50$ a tonne carbon tax being imposed by our Prime Minister will add 2.50$ per gigajoule a roughly 46% increase. I am starting to replace my windows with higher quality windows. I have r40 insulation in the ceiling and R20 in the walls. It is not that expensive to heat. I still don't agree with a 46% increase to something I consider essential when it is -40, heat! So Grassfarmer I disagree, I think it is you that is wrong.

Of course it isn't "locked in" why do you think people are furiously looking for ways to mitigate the rise in global temperature and being impeded by people who don't believe/think warmer would be better/think other countries should shoulder the burden?

I'm not sure how you reckon the Prime Minister is going to increase your gas bill 46%. It will be a provincial tax first of all. What is the source of your $2.50 per gigajoule figure?

I hope you do take the time to research the "year without a summer". Frost and snow all summer in New England. Failed crops across Europe and as far as Chine with less than 1C global average temperature deviation. It makes you realize how perilous our food security and agriculture are around the world. All the more reason that we as farmers should be proactive in the climate change discussion not taking a neanderthal stance.

[rockpile]

Sorry Rockpile that is Crossroads Gas co-op brain fart lol.

Thanks Hamloc but I knew right away it was Reg and the boys. They always were the problem child beating to their own drum. Get together with some of your neighbours and attend the AGM and raise a bit of shit, question why their charges are so high. You'll likely get some bs story but it will catch their attention. I would never classify them as one of the best managed or governed gas co-ops. It's always been that way.

[stonepicker]

Hamloc I believe you are drastically wrong on two fronts. First is the fact that Canada's emissions are only a small part of the worlds total hence it is not worth us doing anything. Obviously it will take a global collective effort and claiming that we ourselves can't solve it so it's better to do nothing is a pathetic cop out.
Secondly you seem to underestimate the effect of temperature fluctuation. Research the "year without a summer" (1816) where the average global temperature decreased by 0.4-0.7C and brought catastrophic results to agriculture leading to people starving in several countries/continents. This case should be a real wake up call to how little temperature change it takes to precipitate a catastrophe.

Your out to lunch grass farmer. You can average all you want, but you leave out the lows ( a lot of frosts ) and half a degree wouldn't have caused that. The big problem was a huge volcanic explosion which cooled everything off far more than half a degree avg. ( remember mount pinatubo and its effects? ) The world was in a long term cooling trend for a few hundred years, are you telling me that over 300 years that the avg world temp. only dropped less than half a degree? Because if it was more then by your theory there shouldn't have been crops for a couple hundred years. Out to lunch.

[grassfarmer]

Grass has a new shed full of diesel powered equipment and produces one of the highest carbon contributing foods there is beef. He is established and comfortable what about the next generation of farmers they wont be so lucky under the carbon tax regime.

Hardly - I just got my old tractor rebuilt in time for its 30th birthday. Sitting in the shed alone. Building my systems around only needing to run it for 2-3 hours once every 3 days in winter. Sequestering more CO2 than we produce through our grazing management. Doing more than most to ensure there is a future generation of farmers on the land. Opposite of you climate change denial neanderthals.

[grassfarmer]

You can average all you want, but you leave out the lows ( a lot of frosts ) and half a degree wouldn't have caused that. The big problem was a huge volcanic explosion which cooled everything off far more than half a degree avg.

Not my facts stonepicker - the generally accepted facts of the scientific community. Why are you manipulating the data or do you have some superior knowledge of the events of 1816?

[stonepicker]

Not my facts stonepicker - the generally accepted facts of the scientific community. Why are you manipulating the data or do you have some superior knowledge of the events of 1816?

Who's manipulating data? I'm using common sense. The pinatubo eruption of '91' cooled the global temp. by one degree F. ,how come we still grew crops? By your statements, it should have brought catastrophe. It was a very cool summer and it sure felt like summer was more than one degree cooler! '91' eruption had an affect for 2or3 years according to the experts. And i have no doubt that history will prove that you are the neandrathal when it comes to your belief in manmade climate change.

[Hamloc]

Grassfarmer with zero till we are also a net sequesterer of carbon so don't feel like the Lone Ranger!

One interesting thing I found out about the Albertay carbon tax today. I have a neighbor with a coal stoker furnace in his shop. Jan 1 2017 35$ a tonne carbon tax on stoker coal. Goes up to 53$ a tonne on Jan 1 2018. Obviously will have to replace the furnace at some point. More cost more cost!

[greybeard]

Like Grassfarmer I'm a big believer in sequestering CO2.
I live within 20 miles of the northern forest. It might be considered a significant carbon sink as it goes about 8hrs north when flying transcontinental.
Rarely see a single light emitting carbon, but when you do the emissions per person must be off the chart.
If they put money in an envelope they can buy carbon credits from Africa or California.
Solves that personal emission problem.
I like reading The Economist to get a more worldly view of current events.
If you type " Is it climate change or just the weather "into your and chose the article from The Economist you get a starting point. The gold is in the comments. DON'T MISS THE COMMENTS on any global warming article in the The Economist.

[grassfarmer]

Who's manipulating data? I'm using common sense. The pinatubo eruption of '91' cooled the global temp. by one degree F. ,how come we still grew crops? By your statements, it should have brought catastrophe. It was a very cool summer and it sure felt like summer was more than one degree cooler! '91' eruption had an affect for 2or3 years according to the experts. And i have no doubt that history will prove that you are the neandrathal when it comes to your belief in manmade climate change.

You - claiming that if you discount the frosts the temperature excluding those must have fallen more than half a degree. I don't know - wasn't around then, doubt you were either so i'm inclined to rely on best projections of the scientific community versus a farmer trying to score points on an internet chat forum.

Grassfarmer with zero till we are also a net sequesterer of carbon so don't feel like the Lone Ranger!

Could you provide some scientific data to back up that claim? I haven't seen anything yet that indicated zero till makes you a net sequesterer when you include the inputs used for the whole production system - diesel, gas to make fertiliser, energy used to make the machinery etc etc.
Also have you got proof of the cost implication of the carbon tax in AB on natural gas prices?

[Hamloc]

Grassfarmer, for about the last 9 years we could sell carbon credits based on approx. 1 tonne of sequestered carbon for every 6 acres as long as your using an opener with less than 40% disturbance. As for proof of this I would assume there is an Alberta government website with this info.

As for the cost on natural gas it is posted right on the Alberta climate leadership website. At the 20$ a tonne carbon price the carbon tax is 1.01$ per gigajoule and it goes up approximently 50 cents per gigajoule for every 10$ a tonne increase in the price of carbon. Therefore when it reaches 50$ per tonne the price of 2.50$ a gigajoule. This will be nationwide once the national carbon tax kicks in.

As for coal my neighbor wast contacted by his coal supplier from Forestburg to inform him of the upcoming cost increases due to the carbon tax.