How much land will PV need to supply our electricity?

[chuckChuck]

In a previous thread Oneoff tried to prove mathematically that solar PV is not viable because of the amount of land required. According to the experts at the US Department of Energy National Renewable Energy Lab Oneoff is wrong.


http://www.nrel.gov/docs/fy04osti/35097.pdf

If photovoltaics were a primary energy source, what would
the world look like? Would PV collectors cover every square
inch of available land? Contrary to popular opinion,
a world
relying on PV would offer a landscape almost indistinguishable
from the landscape we know today
.
The impact of PV on the landscape would be low for three
reasons. First, PV systems have siting advantages over other
technologies; for example, PV can be put on roofs. Second,
even ground-mounted PV collectors are efficient from the
perspective of land use. Third, adequate sunlight is ubiqui-
tous and present in predictable amounts almost everywhere.
As we move away from fossil-fuel energy, PV use will be
crucial because of its land-use advantages.
PV’s Low-Impact Siting for Flat-Plate Systems
In the United States, cities and residences cover about 140
million acres of land. We could supply every kilowatt-hour
of our nation’s current electricity requirements simply by
applying PV to
7% of this area—on roofs, on parking lots,
along highway
walls, on the sides of buildings, and in other
dual-use scenarios. We wouldn’t have to appropriate a single
acr
e of new land to make PV our primary energy source!

[Robertbarlage]

Not sure we're you are from chunky but in Oct of 2016 solarlights on our patio wouldn't even run a LED bulb. No sun for about 30 days so if that happens can I sue if my power is off and your costing me money?

[chuckChuck]

Robert... Seriously .... you are judging solar electricity based on cheap patio lights with very small batteries that are designed to be thrown away in a year or two?

[SASKFARMER3]

Chucky keep searching papers and documents that help you prove your theory. But when the sun doesn't shine like October your useless system will crash. Yes our patio solar lights went dark in October even the sled shacks batteries died and drained out from a outside yard light. Kind of funny how slowly they just couldn't charge with no sun. Back up wind oh it never blew much for the same period.

Hydro yep the rain raised the water levels and water was moving turbines and generating power. Coal was coming out of the ground and generating power co2s were being captured back in the ground.

Life is good.

Oh yea yesterday was the shortest sunlight day of the year throw in a winter storm and we're back freezing in a third world country.

Liberal plan NDP plan on environment is bad and will crush Canada back to the Stone Age.

Lest see you have what the third largest oil and gas supply in the world and your going to sacrifice that with green unproven tec.

Yes we have a winner here is your sign chucks boy.

[Robertbarlage]

. So I should buy expensive lights have no sun and have same outcome what a great idea it just makes sense! Lol

[biglentil]

Solar works well for calculators thats about it.

[chuckChuck]

Thanks for comedic answers guys, have a great christmas!

[chuckChuck]

So SF3 are you actually back working for a living? Or still on holidays?

[Robertbarlage]

The problem I have with it is you want me to pay for your experiment .I have a problem with that.spend your own money I could care less hope it works .

[Klause]

Robert... Seriously .... you are judging solar electricity based on cheap patio lights with very small batteries that are designed to be thrown away in a year or two?

We have a solar fencer, The horses were without an energizer with power since October 11.


Now, every morning the panel is covered with frost, and snow from flurries that fall overnight.


End result, I bought my wifey the adapter for plugging it into mains power.


If there was enough sun power in the northern hemisphere in winter to heat homes with solar then we wouldn't be in winter and have snow to start with.


Energy is energy....

[oneoff]

While some others might suggest their Sask house roof or the adjacent parking lot are suitable locations for a 10 MW PV solar unit; they probably haven't been told that Sask doesn't usually have 80 acres (or 160 acres for the first two) that neatly fits the bill. So its likely that two individual 10MW units (total of 20 MW) will fall into the following scenario. This works out to 80 acres per 10MW and excuse me I used 70 acres in the previous calculations (which also came from Sask Power news releases.)

Further; for those who never attended a planning district meeting; nor an "Official Community Plan; nor public hearings on wholesale "Zoning Bylaw " changes; just beware that there are stringent setback distances from neighbors and municipal roadways and a lot more that has been overlooked. It ain't like you farm right up to the property line and then expect someone else to provide your buffer zone...all at no cost of course and then still tell the world about how your air is so much purer; your product completely healthy and uncontaminated by any known man made approved product.

Show the errors in the calculations and you'll get a correction; but its unacceptable to use information that picks and chooses that which only confirms your firmly held beliefs..

WHAT’S HAPPENING NOW
As part of the competitive procurement plan,
we’re searching for qualified vendors for the first
of two, utility-scale solar projects. Each of these
two, 10 MW projects will be built, owned and
operated by an Independent Power Producer
(IPP). The IPP for each project will be selected
after completing a two-phase competitive
procurement process involving the submission of
a Request for Qualification (RFQ) and then a
Request for Proposal (RFP).
We’re evaluating potential solar project locations
for the first 10 MW project and have identified
three ideal areas for this first project site: Morse,
Rush Lake, and Estevan.
The site that SaskPower selects will be provided as an
option in the RFP. While proponents may choose to
propose their own site, SaskPower is following its site
selection process to ensure a qualified and low risk site
is provided as an option. The site selection process
considers the below criteria:
ï‚· Optimal solar intensity
ï‚· Available infrastructure and capacity
ï‚· Low environmental risk
ï‚· Low land value
ï‚· 200 m distance from an occupied resisdence
ï‚· Community feedback
The site proposed in the RFP will total 160 acres,
of which approximately 80 acres will be required
for installation of solar equipment including the
ground-mount solar panels.

[oneoff]

After we get the next 20 inches of snow in the next week or so...its going to become really obvious why 40 to 70 acres of solar panels need more than just an access road around the perimeter. Better build in some snow storage area. So don't ever just calculate the panel surface area and expect that is the area required

And I'd be much less surprised than some proponents if 10's of acres of panels don't make a pretty good snow fence. Further the owners should be required to clean the frost and snow accumulation when required and I'm not sure if it fully sinks in about how many square feet there are in 70 or 80 acres; and how absolutely impossible it would be to dig snow from amongst them if that were ever necessary.

Maybe makes cleaning snow off football stadium seats comparatively a very minor task. And since its tax dollars involved; we are going to expect this is all done without excuses or whimpering and that the project works as promoters have promised it will.

[oneoff]

Every bonce in a while a person should try in a shoe on the opposite foot...just to see how it fits.

Chuck says not one additional acre needs to be requisitioned; suitable sites surround us already.

Well there's an opportunity to at least brainstorm about two individual 10MW PV sites. I challenge everyone and anyone to suggest what might be viewed an actual site partnered with SaskPower (who is the only game in town when it comes to an electrical generating grid system in Sask).

My preference would be a reclaimed strip mining area; already properly sloped; and it being close to high voltage transmission lines; existing infrastructure; tradespersons to run it; facilities that will be decommissioned prior to 2030 that provide room for future new forms of generating capacity. Estevan may or may not be the "Sunshine Capital" but is likely to be as good as any. Sask Power even has their own option which the successful proponent could choose if they wish...or even if they run into land acquisition problems themselves..

To put chuck on the spot...what have you got to suggest that is much better?. No reprints from other countries allowed. This test has to show your true creativity.

Others please show we're not all luddites and are open to testing alternatives that might someday be ready for some implementation on its own merits.

[chuckChuck]

Estevan would be a good choice to look at for a solar plant on a large scale. It is the sunniest place in Canada. There is already lots of electrical transmission lines. They need jobs, as they have been hit hard by the fall in oil prices.

[furrowtickler]

Put the solar power where it's needed - in the cities. Utilize exsisting buildings, roof tops and all south facing sides.
If this tech gets as efficient as stated why use exsisting power grid that is very venerable to weather and possible solar flares. One good sized solar flare like what happened in the late 1800's and The exsisting power grid is toast. It will happen eventually.