Co-operatives

[Hopalong]

See renewed interest in a farmer owned grain handler for southern Saskatchewan.
Preliminary proposal looks to be investor owned with linkage to amount of cropland.
Might be useful to look at co-operative entities in USA and Australia and ask why they survived while our own prairie farmer owned ones have died.
Also to ask about other parts of the world where farmer owned and/or co-operative grain handlers have either survived or failed.
Some of us will remember when co-operative farms were big in Communist governed countries and wonder if any of them survive.
There was also support from Sask govt for co-ops, don't know if any of that remains.

[bucket]

Working together becomes a necessity of wealthier people when...

A. Things start getting tight with their operations and all should work together mostly to their benefit....

Or

B.They realize they are still requiring all of their neighbors or what's left of them to work together to take on the giants they supported that are now ****ing them big time....


Examples.....SWP to shareholders but most facilities are the same for mere pennies.

WIT sold as a turnkey to p&h for far less than its value.

In other words ....you don't know what you have til it's gone.....

[Hopalong]

Topic was sparked by a recent conversation with a rice grower from Arkansas who said he sells production through a co-op.
Said he receives initial price on delivery and any extra through interim and final payments.
Remember attending a Regina meeting to promote building Weybun terminal, did not invest in part because of distance.
Own farm's more recent experience with farmer owned entities has not been good.
Wonder if there are any secrets to ones that are still going.

[jamesb]

I wouldn't mind seeing CHS move into Canada as a grain buying entity. I understand they have moved into southern Manitoba in a small way. They seem to be a well run coop.

[sawfly1]

it is a tough thing to play against the big boys, they do not play fair.

private family's own the grain trade,

and in our own govt.s wisdom

what was left of the wheat board was sold to the saudis . instead of farmers.
they made sure it was dead for good.
no chance of resurrection , .

you have to ask yourself , how much corporate pressure , had to occur ,
for the conservative govt. to sell to muslims . rather than farmers


we are starting to feel a little small and insignificant down on the farm.

Bayer buying monsanto

Agrium thru CPS gobbling up farm supply companies

and between the liberals and the conservatives
the creation of
a monster with 2 heads , the railroads, more powerful than the canadian govt.
accountable to no one .

i kinda think the deck is a little stacked against our coop ideas .
you can dream

[farmaholic]

Sawfly....I see the grain trade consolidated even globally...the main "international" traders(Glencore and Cargill and who knows who else) have access to grain world wide and in some cases get to pick which "shelf" they will take their supplies from to serve their customers.

Just how well do you think "Co-op" owned grain will be received and treated at GrainCo owned port terminals?

[malleefarmer]

farmaholic that's a pertanant point but in Australia accc Australian competition consumer commission has rights to fine port operators if they don't give fair and resoanble access to ports passed through parliament as govt actually own port land here but grain cos own assets

[sawfly1]

mallee you are lucky that way.
you have a govt. that gives a shit

we have pretend rules about competition.
that are never enforced.

in my lifetime i can not ever remember a prosecution happening.
you hear about some in the states. never here.

this is canada,
where they can't figure out how to switch stocks at the port.
and the govt. does nothing to force them to.
farmers just pay the demurrage for the ships sitting there.
if they can't fix that, what hope do we have.

the railways fraudulently overcharged for rail car maintenance .
forget how many millions , no one is ever charged.

the RRs with a freight rate that had a garrette of profit and ROI.
failed to get the grain to port costing farmers 5 billion $
yes 5 billion
i guess about 150- 200,000$ out of my pocket alone

the railways get a fine of 150,00$
then they did not pay it.

here they can not even fix the simple things.

even if we had laws it would not matter.
nobody would enforce them.

[stonepicker]

Bullshit on the 5 billion and also farmer's don't pay the demurrage anymore ( we did when we had the --- ) Grain co's pay the demurrage now. Remember? it's their grain at the port, not the farmer's.

[sawfly1]

come now , farmers do not pay demurrage

why did the basis jump a dollar a bushel for those 2 years.

did the grain co.s go to their family coffers to cover the cost.

your cracking me up.

Tom and crew denied it was happening at the time.

then finally admitted it

now you're back to denial
who are you kidding , other than yourself.

like i said at least next time it will be trudeau's fault
so we can all see it
.
you do not have to feel guilty ,

you can count on it that they , won't do anything either,

[ag-boy]

sawfly red your comments on 50 to 100 thousand out of your pockets?
I am not getting what you are saying????

[bucket]

8.85 at the west coast for grain that farmers paid the freight to get it there....and farmers get 6.20 at moose jaw.

[sawfly1]

exactly bucket.
prices were not that bad that year and we just could not access them.

way too much grain to fit thru the tiny hole that that the railroads provided.

so the grain co.s stretched the basis to obscene levels
over a dollar a bushel, more than normal

made out like bandits.
ergo the 5 billion in losses for farmers.
if you grew 100,000 bushels. per year , you lost 100,000 $
almost 2 years, do the math.

you just have to look at the richardsons .

i have no idea , but they just bought Viterra assets,

like what , building their business 5- 10 times what they were.
you tell me .

2-3 years later they have tons of spare cash , to buy up oil companies.

that is pretty good business,

try that on the farm, buy out ten of your neighbours ,
and 2 years later
still have cash to buy oil companies .

[sawfly1]

the above post about the richardsons is my speculation, except for the buying up oil co.s part.
but we do know the price at the port and what farmers received.
plus the untold costs of bags and bins of grain, that sat for another year.
when the world obviously wanted our grain.
like 8 $+ for wheat
we had to take contracts at 6- 9 months out , at whatever terms were offered, just to get a chance to deliver anything.
i had contracts that i could not deliver for 7 months after the due month.

don't believe me , ask western vicki , what it cost on the pulse end of things.

let us put our petty political differences, aside and fix it.
we are an exporting nation, the open market would function.
if we could get it to the port.
but we can't even f ing do that.

do you really believe anything is fixed?

[stonepicker]

Maybe it's you sawfly, in all my years of farming i've never had to wait anywhere close to the 6-9 months that you claim that you wait. And i'm sure i can count on one hand when i haven't been able to haul in the month of delivery. If there was that big of spread between what you got and port price ( and i have my doubts about your port price ) you did a poor job of marketing your grain.