Co-operatives

[sawfly1]

exactly bucket.
prices were not that bad that year and we just could not access them.

way too much grain to fit thru the tiny hole that that the railroads provided.

so the grain co.s stretched the basis to obscene levels
over a dollar a bushel, more than normal

made out like bandits.
ergo the 5 billion in losses for farmers.
if you grew 100,000 bushels. per year , you lost 100,000 $
almost 2 years, do the math.

you just have to look at the richardsons .

i have no idea , but they just bought Viterra assets,

like what , building their business 5- 10 times what they were.
you tell me .

2-3 years later they have tons of spare cash , to buy up oil companies.

that is pretty good business,

try that on the farm, buy out ten of your neighbours ,
and 2 years later
still have cash to buy oil companies .

[sawfly1]

the above post about the richardsons is my speculation, except for the buying up oil co.s part.
but we do know the price at the port and what farmers received.
plus the untold costs of bags and bins of grain, that sat for another year.
when the world obviously wanted our grain.
like 8 $+ for wheat
we had to take contracts at 6- 9 months out , at whatever terms were offered, just to get a chance to deliver anything.
i had contracts that i could not deliver for 7 months after the due month.

don't believe me , ask western vicki , what it cost on the pulse end of things.

let us put our petty political differences, aside and fix it.
we are an exporting nation, the open market would function.
if we could get it to the port.
but we can't even f ing do that.

do you really believe anything is fixed?

[stonepicker]

Maybe it's you sawfly, in all my years of farming i've never had to wait anywhere close to the 6-9 months that you claim that you wait. And i'm sure i can count on one hand when i haven't been able to haul in the month of delivery. If there was that big of spread between what you got and port price ( and i have my doubts about your port price ) you did a poor job of marketing your grain.

[sawfly1]

stone picker. i do not know where you live.
maybe southern or western alberta , maybe you had movement.

but we had nothing.
i had booked sales into march, in late november.
only because they would not book a sale earlier.
that was only to get bags out of the field,and some cash,
forget about the bins. the basis was horrid.

then i had to seed around the bags, only got to haul it in october.
bins were 80 % full going into harvest, good thing i had a bagger,

by then we were well trained , with the backlog , that if we wanted to move a bushell
it had to be contracted 6 months ahead, no matter how bad the terms

i am know i am not the only one that had those problems.
stop trying to rewrite history, that it never happened

ask vicki dutton out of battleford, what % of their car orders of peas / lentils they got to ship.
then tell me again, how it did not cost us anything.

[mbratrud]

See renewed interest in a farmer owned grain handler for southern Saskatchewan.
Preliminary proposal looks to be investor owned with linkage to amount of cropland.
Might be useful to look at co-operative entities in USA and Australia and ask why they survived while our own prairie farmer owned ones have died.
Also to ask about other parts of the world where farmer owned and/or co-operative grain handlers have either survived or failed.
Some of us will remember when co-operative farms were big in Communist governed countries and wonder if any of them survive.
There was also support from Sask govt for co-ops, don't know if any of that remains.

Hi Hopalong,

I think you are referring to Comtrax proposal in the SE.

I think the reference to crop land that you are referring to is to simply put farmers in a frame of mind that it is doable. For example for farmers to raise $30,000,000 look at it as $5 per acre for 5 years on 1,200,000 acres which is 200 - 250 farmers.

In no way is the intention to run as coop. Some farms will invest more some will invest far less. We will go to non farm investors to make up the difference if we have to.

Major objective is to be fully capitalized. Most common recipe for failure is under capitalization and debt.

Also to clarify competetiveness, Comtrax will be fee for service public house with take or pay agreements allowing multiple experienced grain traders to operate through the facilty.

Comtrax won't just be grain will be trans loading other commodities as well. Will have competetive advantage of 134 to 260 car spot.

West coast in 5 years will have excess capacity and will be looking for origination.

[LEP]

Mbatrud. I was involved in a company that was a toll processor. Be careful when setting up your agreement with companies. If they don't own the facility they don't worry about the number of turns they make. If they pay by the tonne if can be a convenient collection point for periodic shipment.

So in other words storage and handling both need a price assigned.

I also know someone who looked at building a fertilizer storage facility. They were going to charge a larger fee for the first turn and less for subsequent turns giving incentive to maximize use, thereby lowering their average cost.

Just ideas.

[mbratrud]

Mbatrud. I was involved in a company that was a toll processor. Be careful when setting up your agreement with companies. If they don't own the facility they don't worry about the number of turns they make. If they pay by the tonne if can be a convenient collection point for periodic shipment.

So in other words storage and handling both need a price assigned.

I also know someone who looked at building a fertilizer storage facility. They were going to charge a larger fee for the first turn and less for subsequent turns giving incentive to maximize use, thereby lowering their average cost.

Just ideas.

Noted. Take or pay agreement will address minimum turns.

[Hopalong]

Not defending or even supporting co-ops or other farmer owned entities but note that many were successful until they started putting profit to investors ahead of service at cost to members.
Don't believe that grain handlers are making such exorbitant profits that newcomers can easily break into the business.
Start up ones need member loyalty to succeed and think it is less likely to last than that for co-ops in past.
Have respect for a profit driven system that encourages investors, no matter who they are or where they live, to put their money where it will bring best return.

[bucket]

Mbratrud

Does the new facility have the ability to load containers ?


It seems before the 2008 meltdown.... bulk freight had got expensive enough to use containers.

[mbratrud]

Mbratrud

Does the new facility have the ability to load containers ?


It seems before the 2008 meltdown.... bulk freight had got expensive enough to use containers.

If this can go ahead, commercial partners would have a lot of say in the facilty. But definatly have had conversations around container loading. CP fairly protective of GTH infrastructure

[bucket]

Mbratrud

Unless you meant something else you said ....."If this can go ahead, commercial partners would have a lot of say in the facilty."


Can you sell this to producers when it sounds like you are building a turnkey facility for one of the commercials using producers money.


The more I think about this ....the right place to do this project would be at a port.....for all the smaller players looking for a throughput ....producer cars and smaller companies that don't have the resources at export....

[wmoebis]

Mbratrud

Unless you meant something else you said ....."If this can go ahead, commercial partners would have a lot of say in the facilty."


Can you sell this to producers when it sounds like you are building a turnkey facility for one of the commercials using producers money.


The more I think about this ....the right place to do this project would be at a port.....for all the smaller players looking for a throughput ....producer cars and smaller companies that don't have the resources at export....

You have a point Bucket. Producer cars are becoming thing of past due to no place to unload. Right to load producer car is gone.