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What is the ideal renewable energy source?

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    What is the ideal renewable energy source?

    In keeping an open mind to the renewable energy debate, I have to ask this:

    Is there a valid economic or ecological reason why we have chosen solar PV and wind as the best choices for investing in? I accept that almost all energy sources are ultimately solar, be in wind, PV, biofuels, hydro electric, even fossil fuels are just stored solar energy, but there are other ways of harvesting them.

    Solar PV and wind turbines are the most popular poster children and whipping bosy on here lately, depending on your perspective, but are they only/best choice, and what led to PV and wind being chosen over all the other options? Is it influence of those standing to gain, or are they the best choices we have? Were those industries able to influence policy without all the other options being weighed equally, or are all the other options just pie in the sky and never were viable to start with?

    Why does geothermal get so little attention, except in Iceland? From my poorly researched perspective, that would seem like a much more workable solution in a cold, sometimes sunless cyclical climate with a very small environmental footprint.

    Tidal power, I see a few projects, but nothing on the scale of PV or wind, and the tides are predictable and reliable compared to wind and sunshine.

    Small scale hydro electric, I realize that large scale dams are not popular with the green crowd, but there is, or was much research into small turbines in natural stream flows that don't necessarily require flooding thousands of acres and blocking fish migration, maybe not as reliable year around as a dam, but would still work on sunless windless days, and output would be predictable.

    Biofuels the way we make them now, by burning copious amounts of fossil fuels, applying non renewable fertilizer and degrading soils worldwide may still be net energy positive, but is not an ideal sustainable solution, but there may be other ways, perennial plants, more efficient plants, smaller scale that doesn't require transportation, and keeps the waste where it came from. The public is mostly against biofuels, but there likely is a lot more potential there, much of which likely would require GMO's which again, the public is against(the logic of which is questionable)

    In spite of my constant bashing of the CO2 scam, and the unworkability of solar in our climate, and with current storage technologies, I do think there is huge potential on a world wide scale. With an electrical grid which scanned both hemispheres, and around the globe, solar PV could funtion without storage. When Iqaluit has 24 hours per day of darkness, Tierra Del Feugo has 17 hours of daylight per day ( OK, and a lot of clouds), and vice versa. When Calgary is in the middle of the night, Beijing is in the middle of the day. The Bering straight is very narrow in the big picture, and could potentially be bridged by power cables. Solar PV isntallations could be placed where the climate is best, and land poorest for other uses. Perhaps even floating in the oceans to bridge the large gap in daylight hours which would exist across the Pacific, and less so the Atlantic as the world turns.

    I realize that the opposition to new powerlines is as big as opposition to pipelines or oilsands, (the logic of that opposition, however eludes me one again). I also realize that with current technology, energy losses of carrying current over such distances would be drastic. But, if the energy source is free once the infrastructure is in place, and we eliminate the unpalatable cost /efficiency loss of trying to store electric power, perhaps the losses could be tolerated? I also accept that currently much of the world is having a proxy war in the middle east over a few small pipelines, and seeing that gives one very little hope that we could all agree on a universal power grid, and powerlines, contributions, costs, maintenance, controlling terrorism, corruption, etc. But the potential is there, if the will was there. Is the concept a pipe dream, yes, but could it be done, yes. It could be done with todays technology, whereas storing solar energy enough for 6 months of winter, let alone 12 hours of darkness with today's technology, is not economically, or ecologically feasible.


    The catch 22, is that developing any alternate energy technology will require massive energy to build. Right now we have the massive amount of energy in fossil fuels, but no motivation to use them to develop alternatives. If we wait until we have no choice, we won't have the energy required to make the changes. But doing it right now does not make economic sense because fossil fuels are so perfect an energy source, so plentiful and there fore so cheap.

    What other potential energy sources am I missing, and why are they not the chosen ones?

    #2
    Human muscle power.

    Biggest hindrance? Social programs and government interference.

    Comment


      #3
      Originally posted by burnt View Post
      Human muscle power.

      Biggest hindrance? Social programs and government interference.
      Yes, good point, definitely renewable. The viability is well proven by millenia of slavery by virtually all cultures. The question is, with our already fat and overfed population, if they/we all had to work hard all day, would food production need to increase to meet our caloric demands?

      I know if we went back to animal power it may be renewable, but would the extra production required to feed them all be even possible today?

      Comment


        #4
        Originally posted by burnt View Post
        Human muscle power.

        Biggest hindrance? Social programs and government interference.
        When my wife first came to Canada, I showed her a picture of the Doukhobour(sp) women pulling a plow, and tried to convince her that that was what I had envisioned. Needless to say, it hasn't quite turned out that way..... Good thing she has a sense of humour.

        Comment


          #5
          Guess where solar energy (sunlight) comes from. The answer might be mainly "our" sun; and thinking a little deeper.....the answer would be as one of the products of the impressive nuclear reactions that emit all sorts of wavelengths of energy.

          But nuclear energy is so much in disfavor that maybe a crusade should be made to shield us from those dangerous sunlight rays. You know cancer causing melanomas; strong disinfectant that kills all sorts of "bugs; UV rays; gamma ray bombardment of atmosphere and worse.

          We sure don't trust humans to manage such energy...do we. Heck it may not even be acceptable to mention that word when talking about green energy.


          But when you think about it; it is the sun's nuclear reactions that are what we depend on; and visible light (sunlight) is only one of the energy sources that must be emitted to keep those reactions going.

          That thought isn't going to get the response it deserves.

          Comment


            #6
            In short - it has yet to be discovered. We are just one generation in the long history of mankind and it is totally disingenuous for any of us to think we know everything about anything. Remember the communicators in Star Trek? Now correlate that to flip phones just a couple of decades later.

            Comment


              #7
              Cogeneration is another option that should be at the top of the list. Anyone can come to grips with the fact that nobody gets much more than a third of the energy of fossil fuels converted to work with internal combustion engines.

              Put that waste heat from the cooling system (typically radiator) and even recover some of the other third from the exhaust gas stream...and you've made some great efficiency gains by simply saving need to burn more fuel solely for heating and evaporating purposes for instance.

              Another major gain could be made by just utilization that energy commonly burnt to get rid of it; or maybe worse still just allowing methane to be released into the atmosphere.

              Those are a couple of ideas that would provide equivalent of almost immediate CO2 reductions; and are apparently not even on radar even though it should be obvious as even chuck says "We'll (and he'll) be using non renewable for a long time yet.

              Comment


                #8
                That's easy, fusion.

                Comment


                  #9
                  Hydro electricity.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by tweety View Post
                    That's easy, fusion.
                    And how is your DIY home fusion kit coming along?
                    I'd agree that any of the nuclea options will end up being the solutions eventually, bu onl after after wast billions and years exploring all other options

                    Comment


                      #11
                      I would say hydro power, nuclear or possibly modular thorium reactors. I really think solar and wind have to much variability.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Put a few select members of this forum in a room and capture all their hot air to run turbines?

                        Comment


                          #13
                          We'll continue researching butterfly wings and fairy farts until nat gas more expensive. Then build reactors.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            IMHO unfortunately if someone had the answer I'm sure the powers that be will not let it live unless they profit greatly.

                            free-energy.ws/nikola-tesla

                            If you do not know about Nikola Tesla it is because the big power companies made sure his name died. This genius had over 700 patents. He made Niagara Falls and the power grid we use today. He invented the electrical motor, many appliances, radio waves, remote control, x-ray, helicopters and torpedoes to name a few. This guy was gifted with visions that he could see in his mind in 3d. When he died in 1943 the US government stold all his documents and told his family and everyone they were nothing and thrown them away or said lost.

                            This person is worth while reading about.

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Originally posted by AlbertaFarmer5 View Post
                              And how is your DIY home fusion kit coming along?
                              I'd agree that any of the nuclea options will end up being the solutions eventually, bu onl after after wast billions and years exploring all other options
                              None of those things were in your original questions' criteria.

                              Fusion holds more promise then anything known to man today.

                              In regards to tidal, there are lots of great ideas for wave power utilizing hydraulic accumulation. Dead simple with a huge float in the waves connected to an arm connected to a piston pump, cranks over a generator.

                              Tidal underwater generators are installed all over the world, are much simpler then wind with almost no maintenance. Also starting to be installed in rivers.
                              Last edited by tweety; Jan 1, 2017, 20:12.

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