Estevan considered for solar power

[chuckChuck]

This is the solar resources map for Canada that clearly shows the southern prairies have the best solar energy resource in the Country.
http://www.estevaneconomicdevelopment.ca/images/energy/solarresources.jpg

I am pretty confident that 10Mw of solar at Estevan will produce 14000Mwh or better.

[Hamloc]

This post is a little off topic but related. As I stated before I am building a new farm shop. I want to set up one corner with a few chairs and a separate heater where we can sit and discuss the world after feeding cows in the morning. I had 3 ideas for localized heat, an air tight wood stove, a small natural gas furnace and an 1500 watt electric radiant heater. Now the electric heater is the simplest because no chimney, no gas line, no wood mess and less fire hazard than wood. So then I thought run the electric heater with solar, free heat or so I thought. Did some reading and concluded I would need 8-9 265 watt panels to produce enough power in Alberta winters. Then I thought no point in having heat if it is not available every day, so I priced out a system with battery back up. Total price for parts still has to be mounted and wired in 11750 dollars, fml, to run a 1500 watt heater. Now of course I could just set up the panels without batteries and buy a small Honda gen set to run when it is cloudy, much cheaper than the batteries. But the part that amazed me was over 12000 dollars once installed to create enough power for dependable access to 1500 watts of heat! Wouldn't heat a very big house. Ontario's Premier wants to phase out natural gas heat and heat with electricity, can't imagine what that would cost. As for using passive solar panels which you cycle glycol through, would only heat on a sunny day and wouldn't provide the localized radiant heat I desire.

[tweety]

Newsflash, generating renewable energy costs more to produce then just burning stored energy.

[tweety]

I am pretty confident that 10Mw of solar at Estevan will produce 14000Mwh or better.

Definitely. But it will cost more than just lighting a match, so scrap it. Isn't that what is being said after 7 pages?

[Hamloc]

Tweety I guess that is probably how I come across. My problem is that Trudeau, Wynn and Notley are trying to tell me that we can switch to green energy at no cost to our economy and if we don't the earth will become uninhabitable for future generations. I think both of those statements are untrue.

[tweety]

Tweety I guess that is probably how I come across. My problem is that Trudeau, Wynn and Notley are trying to tell me that we can switch to green energy at no cost to our economy and if we don't the earth will become uninhabitable for future generations. I think both of those statements are untrue.

I think you came across as totally realistic, my statement was more directed as just a general statement to all - including and especially Trudeau, Notley et al.

I did the same math for geothermal. Have lines all run to the field from the house but it was too expensive to run the heat pump and buy all the stuff. Its expensive. My solar lighting project is small and was not that expensive, but i definitely could have done it cheaper just running underground wire.

But still no answer from Oneoff to just because it costs more, should we not do it. Why shouldn't we get the ball rolling on learning about renewable energy. 10 MW is a drop in the bucket in our entire SK grid production. Can it really drive a man to be that passionate to absolutely not do it? Apparently it can.

I just want to know why. Awaiting an answer

[oneoff]

Teet No Comment. Please go fight with yourself

[burnt]

Teet No Comment. Please go fight with yourself

Likely the most wise response.

Except for the fact that this thread only further exposed the utter untruthfulness, un-affordability and unreliability of the Liberal and NDP's love affair with "green" energy, its greatest lesson was to reinforce the adage that you shouldn't wrestle with a pig - you both get covered in sh** and the pig likes it.

[tweety]

Fair enough. I'll accept that you won't answer.

[oneoff]

Attended "Manitoba Hydro associates" seminar presentation in Brandon today on solar energy.

Intransigent Sask Power probably doesn't have it's figures correct according to a presenter who does seem to quickly understand what is possible and what is outside reasonable parameters.

Still no word back today about confirmation or denial on this front from Sask Power...and its a safe bet they wouldn't last long in a real free enterprise business with their response times; staff so really ignorant; poor business relationship skills and seemingly no one can multiply simple figures.

Really brings into question their media relations department and the engineering staff ; since not promptly correcting one error/faulty logic/beligerant episode creates a perception that this is how that corporation might be doing all business.

On the good news front from Brandon; the salesmen/installer liner upper/Manitoba Hydro liason mainly used an example of a 30 KW capacity system and dwelt on pitching a $1000.00 rebate per KW solar panel capacity; fixed tilted system that dovetails with bi directional meters; sort of 20 to 150 Kw typical capacity and payout of order of 7 years for business type installation that can take advantage of 50% on income tax depreciation and GST reimbursements. Residential installments take almost twice as long to pay out . Manitoba hydro incentives of up to 55 to 60% of installed cost and 7.625 cent reimbursement for excess electrical production at end of 12 months.

Its a fact that winter months are times when credits are burned up and summer and fall are when the bidirectional meter "spins" in the preferred direction.

The problem of fires on roof mounted systems was capably answered by pointing out that all new solar PV panels have a Built in isolator that disconnects the DC output at the panel (maybe even within pane)l; but model they had on display was with a discrete separate module.

The way this was explained was that a DC arc doesn't tend to extinguish itself (wants to act like a welder and once struck it doesn't want to extinguish itself). But a panel that has the positive and negative DC leads not connected can produce no power. The now incorporated additional isolator addresses that problem; and old panels may have to be retrofitted.

Now someone else in the crowd asked if the sales company had heard that the Electrical Code was going to be changed to address this problem. The response was that the sales company had not heard that report; but would certainly check. My comment will be that if those isolaters have a CSA tag and each and every other piece is up to code that all will be well. If not; there won't be any connection to any utility grid and further delays will ensue.



I looked at the disconnect and it didn't resemble any Cooper fuses that had been suggested to do this job


It should be pointed out the company boasted maybe 500,000 watts (500 Kw) of installed solar PV in Manitoba; but they also said that in a couple of days they expect that the first systems will have passed the electrical inspection (required before anyone gets a bidirectional meter plugged in). With short order they are projecting their company will have electricians having a Mega watt capacity ready for commissioning.

Cost / Kwh about 3 1/2 cents, about 1.2 million Kwh in 30 years for a 30 Kw system (Stand to be corrected but think that's what slides said Degradation of panels over time is a fact of life and examples 45,221 output in year 1 goes to 44.995 in year 2 to 40,095 in year 25 and 39,103 in year 30

Manitoba Hydro going up 4% a year in Manitoba and consensus was that its expensive and probably electrical costs will only increase at more rapid rate in Manitoba. Oh and big big debt with electrical Manitoba Hydro according to Manitobians


So much for any propaganda that all other adjoining provinces need to do is tap into abundant cheap Manitoba Hydro propaganda.


They a re selling that having your own independent solar resource locks in your electrical costs with next to no risk ..

They did omit to ever mention the cost of connection to the grid being depended to supply your power particularly in winter monthe; also mentioned that NASA and other data is pretty accurate n a yearly basis bout is "a fair bit different on higher side of max production in summer type mounts; but offset by more disappointing output in winter. Solar panel tilt 45 degrees in their installations. Roof mounts preferred in older already installed installations; but opposite in installations now awaiting final electrical inspection.

One meter per account is now a hindrance according to some in crowd ; but are awaiting hopeful Manitoba Hydro policy change.


Manitoba Hydro created this business for us was a comment made by sales . The 1000 per installed Kw capacity is actually more lucrative that Manitoba Hydro anticipated because solar PV per installed watt is now about $3.00 and Manitoba Hydro was expecting it to be $4.00. But program is in place for at least another year (forget exact deadline)


Good presentation Good questions and truth is that sales pitches; economic incentives; public interest;and bottom line economics are a wining combination.

It should be remembered this is designed by Manitoba Hydro to balance your own production and consumption to net zero (or close) on a yearly basis; not to provide windfalls to investos (Ontario maybe for example). This is accomplished by Manitoba Hydro providing customer with their historical energy bills and dictating about what capacity will be approved to roughly balance out their utility bill to zero over the year.

Good presentation; good input and worth attending.

Not proof read yet. Got other things to do.

[oneoff]

No economics in dual tracking system. Complicated and so on

[burnt]

To rap it up -

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