Estevan considered for solar power

[Oliver88]

Hope you realize how silly that sounds. Basically don't do anything, try anything, research anything, learn anything until its proven and workable technology "competing" with the ultimate in condensed energy that - and in case you still don't know - is going to run out!

Why does it all have to be better then non renewable before it gets used? Shouldn't we be doing projects like this BEFORE we are short on non renewable energy?

Oh and btw, hydroelectric is green so chuckchuck is more then half way there, include geothermal and he is there.

Its not about being green, the stupidest term ever, its about realizing non renewable is NON RENEWABLE and we have got to start paying up and not completely screw over future generations ya greedy bunch!

Is being financially responsible silly to the environmentalists? Most likely don't worry about increased SaskPower rates and live in cities and don't have grain to dry.
Saskatchewan is blessed with fossil fuels and to create efficient energy with no worry about running out. We also have RELIABLE hydro electric option coming from a few different dams, environmental hurdles will have to overcome to bring on more dams.
Nuclear is also a very clean option, once again environmentalists/NDP oppose.

When and If solar, wind, geothermal become cost effective, feasible without a subsidy and provides a reliable/on demand power option than we can proceed with.

A lot of residents will simply install the systems IF they are as efficient as Chuckchuck claims!!!

It would be wise to let a larger jurisdiction full of greenies/Al Gore followers develop the technology rather than let our tax payers fund a potential boondoggle. (California, Ontario, etc.......)

[tweety]

[QUOTE=oneoff;335253]

Of course digging coal or releasing gas out of the ground and burning it will be cheaper. Did i ever say it was? No.

Unquote

I think I'm totally confused

Then why not do solar?

[tweety]

Is being financially responsible silly to the environmentalists? Most likely don't worry about increased SaskPower rates and live in cities and don't have grain to dry.
Saskatchewan is blessed with fossil fuels and to create efficient energy with no worry about running out. We also have RELIABLE hydro electric option coming from a few different dams, environmental hurdles will have to overcome to bring on more dams.
Nuclear is also a very clean option, once again environmentalists/NDP oppose.

When and If solar, wind, geothermal become cost effective, feasible without a subsidy and provides a reliable/on demand power option than we can proceed with.

A lot of residents will simply install the systems IF they are as efficient as Chuckchuck claims!!!

It would be wise to let a larger jurisdiction full of greenies/Al Gore followers develop the technology rather than let our tax payers fund a potential boondoggle. (California, Ontario, etc.......)

They never will be cost competitive. That's the flaw in the reasoning for not doing it. You can't generate power as cheaply as just transferring the stored power already made. Can't happen, so we have to pay for that difference and start pulling the reins on that limited energy already stored.

If you don't want to, i get it. Human nature says we won't change till its too late. I can see not shutting every gas and coal plant down, but my goodness, all this squabble and BS over a few MW of solar power.

Really? A cup of Starbucks coffee a week difference? That's what has you all upset about a few solar panels?

[Oliver88]

They never will be cost competitive. That's the flaw in the reasoning for not doing it. You can't generate power as cheaply as just transferring the stored power already made. Can't happen, so we have to pay for that difference and start pulling the reins on that limited energy already stored.

If you don't want to, i get it. Human nature says we won't change till its too late. I can see not shutting every gas and coal plant down, but my goodness, all this squabble and BS over a few MW of solar power.

Really? A cup of Starbucks coffee a week difference? That's what has you all upset about a few solar panels?

Is the flavour of the day "doomsday concern" to reduce GHG levels or is the issue about running out of non-renewable power sources??

If the GHG is your worry nuclear, hydro, natural gas are all reliable options.
If your worry is non-renewables than hydro is your option.

I simply don't think the math will ever work in Saskatchewan for solar or wind.

[tweety]

Definitely my concern is running out. Not for us. But for the future. While we have all this stored energy lets do what we can to create some ways of making power from the sun, wind, biologic photo cells, fusion....

Because how do you start creating some of this stuff in the future as it gets more scarce if there is barely enough energy to grow food. If its not at our societal responsibility to at least do something, to try, well then i have no argument at all. I just personally feel that we have done plenty of damage already to future generations, its time to pay it forward.

I mean if you have grandkids like i do, and when i think about their kids in the future, will all the problems be magically solved because they have run out of stored energy? Unfortunately the only argument against that is screw em, they're on their own, i did my part by burning buck a liter gas in my Escalade. I paid my debt.

Global warming when outside its minus 25, i say bring it on!

[Guest]

Definitely my concern is running out. Not for us. But for the future. While we have all this stored energy lets do what we can to create some ways of making power from the sun, wind, biologic photo cells, fusion....

Because how do you start creating some of this stuff in the future as it gets more scarce if there is barely enough energy to grow food. If its not at our societal responsibility to at least do something, to try, well then i have no argument at all. I just personally feel that we have done plenty of damage already to future generations, its time to pay it forward.

I mean if you have grandkids like i do, and when i think about their kids in the future, will all the problems be magically solved because they have run out of stored energy? Unfortunately the only argument against that is screw em, they're on their own, i did my part by burning buck a liter gas in my Escalade. I paid my debt.

Global warming when outside its minus 25, i say bring it on!

this makes more sense than anything I have heard on this topic ! if only they would go about it in a sane manner

[burnt]

oneooff - take a look here for what I find to be the most current rates offered for PV electricity:

[URL="http://microfit.powerauthority.on.ca/sites/default/files/page/FIT%20Price%20Schedule%202014-09-30.pdf"]http://microfit.powerauthority.on.ca/sites/default/files/page/FIT%20Price%20Schedule%202014-09-30.pdf[/URL]

I couldn't get into the real-time production pages either - did you blow it up? LOL!

[blackpowder]

I don't see non-renewables running out quickly. But eventually.
I do see peak demand shortages when you can't bring it in from hydro fast enough, once you shut off coal. Stop and think whose hydro?????
N.A. will burn thru our NatGas like a ****d ape for electricity while no new technology will be developed for coal.
I simply feel we are fanatically slaughtering the old bull before the herd is big enough.
A lot of this reading makes my head hurt. Most of chucks posts are just the same song sheet. His value as a politician or lobbyist is being squandered as a primary producer. He is truly a talented writer.
I commend oneoff for his many efforts.
My common sense alarm has been ringing like hell for a long time. Now I'm both fatalistic and pissed
I am not a Luddite. I am not ignorant or stupid. I do not wantonly waste. My knuckles do not drag the ground. (although they are getting arthritic from producing new dollars in our climate for years) I am now simply the paying, mute, minority.
Meanwhile, a good share of the middle class disappears. When those paying for everything overwhelmed by those producing nothing. I know I'm tired of being punished and I'm not talking income tax!!
Privileged elite, of course while telling us how sinful we are, seem to all live on a warm coastline. Helo-ing in to comfort the parasites while vilifying the mule. Neither Jane Fonda nor Suzuki bagged their own shit this morning. This country is so gawdamn small we could all starve and no world stats would change. We could have it made. But no, our new all inclusiveness and desire to lead the lemmings is pissing it all away.
Now, the learned on here can tear this apart any way they want. I give a fk.

[oneoff]

SEE very last post (AND I MEAN THE LAST POST ON PAGE 7 or so). The final response is WELL WORTH REMEMBERING


I posed the following questions to Sask Power before 3:00 pm this afternoon; first by telephone and then was told it was best to inquire through email and that they usually responded quite quickly. So far no response customer_products@saskpower.com



QUOTE
Please provide answers to the following questions about the proposed Sask Power initial "demonstration" solar 10Mw PV projects soon to be constructed.

Will the panels be simply tilted or is there an additional tracking system to give increased efficiency by improving positioning throughout the day and through out the year.

How many acres of actual panels will be erected for a the site with 10 Mw capacity?


Is the nameplate rating of panel output 10 Mw and thus ; expected to produce approximately 240 Mwh of electricity in a day
or will it produce about 10 Mw during the period of any day during full sunlight with no clouds; panels clear of frost etc. In short how many Mwh are expected to be produced on a good clear average day

I guess another way of saying that is how many Mwh of electricity will be expected to be produced in one year or 8760 hours of operation at say Estevan Sk from a 10 Mw solar panel array.

Thank you There is a lot of misinformation circulating and facts are always good to have in hand. I hope you can give me some answers this afternoon

UnQuote

So far no reply received.

The other matter is Ontario's up to 10 KW residential and farm generation program capped at a 10 Kw name plate rated unit.
Powerhousesolar appears to be in charge of the Ontario solar industry for small independent producers. You get accepted into the program and they charge 100,000 or 107,150 or so and you have up to 10 Kw nameplate rated system.

Burnt has provide a link to the current tariff schedule and it isn't nearly as lucrative as the 80 cents paid for up to 20 years that was previously available. Loopholes and all way up to fraud transgressions have been identified in last while and procedures and checks have been tightened up.

The Live Tracker data access apparently hasn't worked since about 2:48 this afternoon. I just inquired as to what might be wrong; and could relay any reply received.

In meantime I do have the data for 8 full days of electrical solar generation from Jan 1/2017 to Jan 8/2017. Thats a 192 hour continuous time span. The 10.08 KW (DC) rated panels generated a total of
61.9+59.1+3.0+7.6+10.3+42.6+47.4+65.2=297.1 Kwh of electricity at the "PowerhouseOne" site and will be paid 80 cents a Kwh because the contract was taken out sometime prior to the New year.

Now thats data that can't be argued with me; thats what was publically posted on the Powerhouse site and 297.1 divided by 192 hours is 1.55 Kwh produced on average every hour for the last 8 days.


This from 10.08 Kw rated array. Meaning in no uncertain terms that 8 days experience in the first week of Jan/2017 (in Ontario I am assuming because it did come from a Canadian Powerhouse web site) that there was 15.35% of rated capacity performance.

Now 6 pages of rebuttal can follow; but the fact still stands that to replace a Kw of functioning nuclear; or coal or any other generation that runs more or less on a continual basis for months at a time would take about 6 times as much nameplated rated solar panels to generate the same power as those other more dependable continuously running machines.

I have suspected that from the beginning, Sask Power has said 15%; actual projects says 4 1/2 to 6 hours out of 24 hours and common sense says similar results are in the ballpark. This Ontario Hydro analysis gives exactly the same conclusion. It wasn't cherry picked, the data wasn't manipulated; it was the first site that came up as the default on powerhousesolar.ca .

But yet this analysis will be followed by denials. Those denials are easily accepted by naive souls; who only accept convoluted contradictory misinformation, finger pointing; fear mongering; grand children being sentenced with our earth destroying behavior accusations...... continued to be made into made into the targets that deflect from fact that the solar replacement is only going to produce produce 1.5 Kw when it is branded as 10 Kw

And time will show that similar results will occur from the Sask Power project output from more than 30 million of investment will be closer to 1.5 Mw instead of 10Mw that Sask people might expect they can depend on.

A factor of 6 or more doesn't require statistical analysis to prove that it is significantly different. But if there is a demand to prove that I could accommodate any idiot who wants to waste other people's time.

[AlbertaFarmer5]

Definitely my concern is running out. Not for us. But for the future. While we have all this stored energy lets do what we can to create some ways of making power from the sun, wind, biologic photo cells, fusion....

Because how do you start creating some of this stuff in the future as it gets more scarce if there is barely enough energy to grow food. If its not at our societal responsibility to at least do something, to try, well then i have no argument at all. I just personally feel that we have done plenty of damage already to future generations, its time to pay it forward.

I mean if you have grandkids like i do, and when i think about their kids in the future, will all the problems be magically solved because they have run out of stored energy? Unfortunately the only argument against that is screw em, they're on their own, i did my part by burning buck a liter gas in my Escalade. I paid my debt.

Global warming when outside its minus 25, i say bring it on!

I'm with you there. IF we wait until we really are running out of the non renewable energy sources, it will be too late to develop the alternatives, whatever they may be, simply because it will require so much energy to build the infrastructure and make the changes. I am all for researching and developing alternatives. I'm not for taxing carbon due to supposed AGW, but all for establishing what alternatives might be viable, we will need them some day.

[tweety]

I get it oneoff, draining a battery is cheaper than charging one. So lets just keep finding more batteries. Problem solved.

[burnt]

Seems to be a lot of coal around, like 250 year's worth (similar to NG) at current consumption rates:

[URL="http://www.eia.gov/energyexplained/index.cfm?page=coal_reserves"]http://www.eia.gov/energyexplained/index.cfm?page=coal_reserves[/URL]

And that is before we even start to explore the energy potential from kerogen.

Seems to me that there is a lot of needless panic around the issue of fossil fuels supply. We grossly underestimate the power of human ingenuity, likely losing sight of it due to selfish, short-term thinking borne from nihilistic thinking such as that demonstrated by negativists like "Dr." Suzuki and the Goracle.

In other words, we are witnessing and experiencing the unhappy and injurious spectacle of politics leading "science".