Costsof renewable power link may not work

[Oliver88]

Green options will be utilized when they receive sufficient subsidies to make them feasible.
The global energy production numbers speak for themself.

Do any Agriville members power their homes year round by solar or wind? Would be interested to hear about farms doing this in a cold climate.

[furrowtickler]

[tweety]

Hamloc, if a farmer doesn't pay road tax on marked fuel, did the road tax ever exist?

Or is it a subsidy?

People are good with billions remaining in oil execs pockets but oh no, don't spend a penny on renewable.

[oneoff]

Oliver....this isn't about promoters providing one shred of their evidence to prove sustainability in the near or distant future. That would dampen enthusiasm and admitting a 1% market penetration (even with unhealthy subsidies) isn't attention grabbing for the masses who are meant to receive the message.

Well maybe distant future because they know costs always decrease to point where everything is available in surplus amounts; costs decrease to near zero and there are never more than minor setbacks or temporary problems.

Sooo...ignore that power of doubling theorem and push only your pet utopian theories ( in baby steps...each carefully paced at distances that causes no one to trip or stumble )

[chuckChuck]

So does having a utopian vision apply to Brad Wall and Sask Power who are planning for 1600Mw of wind by 2030?

Where is your public campaign against Saskpower and Brad Wall to stop the insanity? If you are so sure you are right that is the responsible thing to do.

[Hamloc]

In all fairness Chuck I have spent far more time talking about the cost of solar. I think properly located wind has advantages over solar. It produces power at about 35% efficiency as opposed to 20% efficiency for solar. The reason the left likes solar so much is that in theory every person with a house can participate.

[chuckChuck]

Hamloc. We have discussed solar pv more, but the many on Agriville have criticized wind as well.

We already have significant amounts of wind in Saskatchewan and are about to get more. So any expansion must be based on real life results.

Solar is definitely more accessible for individuals. And as I have explained several times grid tied solar PV is feasible in Saskatchewan and will result in lower long term electricity costs for those who want to invest.

[tweety]

Also the practically zero maintenance of solar, installation almost anywhere, and that turbines need to be quite large to achieve even modest efficiency, is highly desirable comparing solar to turbines for home/personal use. I find it hard to believe that generating power for your own use is socialist. Rather, its quite entrepreneurial.

Oneoff, we get it, you hate the concept of attempting to begin to try things to get off the fossil fuel tit and are unwilling to spend a penny doing so hoping instead for something to fall from the sky into your lap and magically making free power.

Message well rec'd.

[sumdumguy]

Tweety, you buy into the hoax? More carbon - more photosynthesis - more food- more life for me thanx and less fear mongering. Please pay my carbon tax. You'll feel so much better.

[Hamloc]

Chuck2, in Saskatchewan at least 15 years before you start to save money on power(solar system payed for), in Alberta it is over 30 years without subsidy.

Tweety, is it entrepreneurial to invest in infrastructure that takes 15-30 years to pay for depending on your location and then either has to be replaced or removed at your own expense? It is depreciable infrastructure, it does increase in value over time.

[tweety]

Hamloc, it is the beginning to find answers. Your statement is false about 30 year payback. the average is 6.9 years, shorter where electricity is more expensive, longer where power is cheap and no incentives, obviously.

Even if you double that, its still 18 years of free power. I'd much rather see the carbon tax for example turned into incentives for renewable energy then gifts to oil companies. Wouldn't you?

I just don't understand the hatred for renewable energy, yet no answers in its place.

[Oliver88]

What is the life expectancy for a solar power system that has to endure snow, ice and -40 temperatures?

How thick can snow or ice be on panel before they don't work?