Very Touchy Subject....Divorce

[GDR]

Understandable concern but pretty sensitive issues that could create lots of hard feelings if not approached properly. Inheritance is protected but don't believe there is the same protection of gifts/ transfer.

The advantage of bringing in a professional is that it can be their idea not yours to include a solution to deal with the spousal concern.

Biggest mistake farm families make is lack of communication. Everyone including farming and non farming children and spouses all need to be involved and heard.

As an idea what about transferring the farm at full market value but have a portion in the form of a callable loan to the kids, don't ever have to take a payment or interest but if you have a registered mortgage you have the ability to send half the mortgage with half the farm.

[farmaholic]

Fj....an asset is an asset is an asset. .....what are your "intentions" with yours? Who are your INTENDED "beneficiaries"?

[fjlip]

Two sons, one more interested in the farm than the other. The new partner/wife is always the uncertainty. A immediate concern before grandchildren is a common death of your child and his/her spouse. If the in-law is younger that person is deemed to die last, and without a will, ALL your assets go to in-laws next of kin. Scary. But very low risk. We can not stop all consequences. But if you are deceased, a bad result will not cause you stress, just thinking of all negative out comes now.

[Richard5]

I might be suggesting a family trust to own the farm company shares because that is what I am doing in hopes to transfer the farm to my one son that is interested in taking it over. I do have one other child and this also works for him too as it allows me to strip cash out at dividend rates. A proper set up trust should be able to handle things Farma's topic is describing

I know FJ has expressed misfortune of being involved with a trust in the past but could it be that it was set up in a way that was not able to look out far enough. Trusts only last 21 years so it had to have been changed or renewed to last 40....

I would not suggest a financial planner would necessarily be fully educated to handle this either. Some no doubt will be but its just like an accountant, lawyer, mechanic, plumber - EVERYONE is different, have different skillset and experience to offer - Even if they work in the same building.

I think too often we are too trusting as farmers and people and think that everything we hear from a so called expert that we think has the knowledge.

Specifically, sucession planning. I have been spending some time reading and going to seminars. Often its some guy or group of guys talking about creating partnerships and incorporating. In my mind that is the final step but 4-6 have been missed. I think we need to be looking more at the true profit potential of the farm first to see if it can financial support the transfer. In addition to that depending on how many people involved, is the process looking out into the future enough to allow flexibility for the next generations hurdles.

If investment guys do succession planning, its seems to be all about how much do I need to retire and when there isn't enough then life insurance is suggested.

I don't even know much about vacationing outside Canada, how the heck would I know about how much I need to retire. Maybe I need to read more of S3's Friday vacation tips

[SASKFARMER3]

Vacations on a dime!

Really you need to eat at home, you use gas/diesel in your truck at home so only extra is your lodging! And if you bought right not a big cost!

We're working on ours it takes time and good lawyers and accountants. Costs a bit but hopefully done correct.

[SASKFARMER3]

Most farms will crash after a divorce if no preplaning was done!

Can't take the cash loss and extra debt! Very few make it!

But the winners are always the lawyers they love when you fight

[sumdumguy]

When we got married, we had a contract. " The one that leaves the relationship leaves with what he/she came - simple." We wanted our work to count for something and not get blown apart. Its not too relevant anymore, just kinda funny.

[blackpowder]

Some very good comments.
No offense but unless you've been spanked by the lawyers you're naive.
My grandfathers will made life hell for 40 years as well.
My children will not be given millions from a legacy they didnt know or were taught to hate. Theres a young go getter neighbor kid for that.
Get the word legacy out of your head.
Keeping your natural hate for lawyers is healthy and need not interfere with using them.
One neighbor here kept title in 3 names. Mom, Dad, Son. That way new spouse gets 1/2 of 1/3.
Yes, fairness changes with time and contributions.
Wills are to be made when people are healthy. So too prenups when everyone getting along.
Plan your machinery purchases carefully as child support can call %100 of your CCA as income for pmnt calcs. And believe me, the farming spouse in a divorce will have a magnifyng glass up his ass until the youngest child of that marriage is thru college. Can anyone spell forensic audit??
Lawyers ***g looove farmers.
We're all ***g millionares!
And naive.
Understand this. The system doesnt care who you are or what you do for living. Lawyers have told me to get a construction job because Im a big guy. Or to sell out, move to their new town and pump gas. For the kids.
Dont do a joint anything, unless you can smoke it.
Gifts must stay out of matrimonial property. Keep all your paperwork!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Yes, I've heard of fair, amicable divorces. Also divorces where wife didnt get what she deserved.
A good settlement is likely one where no ones satisfied.
Child agreements are another horror novel altogether. And unending if your selfish or rich.
Remember, the human factor more fickle than the weather.
I still support the concept of two becoming one. But the legalities... The system discourages it and the experts cant figure out why.
Remember, you may have to eventually trust a lawyer. (Like you would a tame scorpion) But never like one.

Remember one thing if it happens. Everything the adults do and say is absorbed by the children. I pray for their sake all parties remain sane, civil and calm.
Eventually the wisdom of Solomon and the Serenity prayer kick in.
But only if your *** sane!!

If I can be of any help email me.
More later.

[malleefarmer]

been there done that my ex wife left me not other way around.
at the time was blindsided 1998.
had trust and other "protection" in place didn't help much except increase lawyers fees explaining trust etc to judge ended settling out of court.

yep sask3 you never really get over it financially if your not ready I WASNT

remember it well father passed away dec 14 my wife announced she was moving on with 3 kids dec 26 was a stressful period

[sumdumguy]

My sincere regrets to those that go through the divorce process including the children who are in the middle of the mess. Inept lawyers and biased legal systems aren't meant to make the process smooth nor easy on the children. Fathers are often left with the bills and not much else. Having said that, there are some amicable divorces where greed, fighting and hate are not part of the equation.