Very Touchy Subject....Divorce

[westernvicki]

Taking 50% of the asset base from the farmer can be the equivalent to taking the professional papers away from a Dr. or teacher or a nurse, as it can interfere with the farmers ability to maintain a viable business and the career.

The recent increase in assets from 2005 to date has seen asset values increase 4 x in many cases.
However, current income is unlikely to sustain the debt on a farm which may be forced to valuate 50% of that asset increase, and pay out this sum in a divorce. This type of division can be highly destabilizing to the career of the farmer, and the farm unit that is involved.

Given that farm units are often more complex than those of our grandparents, a prenup is just good business for everyone involved.

[blackpowder]

It is a necessity.
As are life insurance policies should something happen to farming child.

[blackpowder]

Exactly half of every cent leftover and half before tax of all future cents if any support.


Mid month paychecks for some often $0 after maintenance.

If your job pays you 60k a year.
If 2 kids. After support on 60 and income tax on 60 you will live on 30 for the year.

If you self employed then lawyers have field day. Maintenance stays out of it.

Try paying off that machinery while paying support based on arbitrary (up to 100) % of depreciation added back to income.
Now replace that machinery.

Or you can pay for an audit into what shares in your company are worth. Paying those snotty assessors up front real fun. Yes, you do all the paying.
The other party of course their lawyer simply takes his fee out of the settlement. Cozy.

Now, we havent touched on the cost of court appointed parenting evaluations and mediation. IF you play their game, those educated idiots are only $300/hr.

Laws intent to assume house still intact. ie. lifestyle to which they were acustomed.

No wonder self representing more common.

[blackpowder]

About self representing. Obviously I'm not ambitous enuf to bother for long run.
But next time I get a Sunday night Purolator package telling me to appear in court Friday, you can bet I'll be going alone the first time. Mayswell ring up more time $ for the other party.
This shit is planned weeks in advance and sprung on you at last minute. Shock and awe. Fk em.

[farmaholic]

BP....will you be free of mandatory obligations once the youngest is through post secondary or will you have lifetime hellimony to pay.

Hopefully one day you will be free of the bullshit....something to look forward to. I've heard it may never really end because.of the "common bond" (kids)....events, grads, convications, marriage, grandkids, etc etc etc......

Take care man.

[blackpowder]

Freedom from lawyers will be over after post secondary as luckily I dont have spousal. At which point she will be broke.

[blackpowder]

And true, your children will always have same mother. So if any crazy involved only over for you when your dead. Pray for the kids.
Especially those taught to hate.

[blackpowder]

Sorry none of your original questions answered. After rereading them they seem somewhat unanswerable as they sound as from the audience rather than the arena.
Good luck farma.

[farmaholic]

Quote:

" I am on the record here as saying I will likely never fully enjoy the full value of the farm because it won't get sold to my kids at full market value. lots will likely be gifted. Yet if my kids get divorced, I haven't been paid fair value but their spouses are entitled to half of full market value? How is that fair? Some people could become millionaires just by "association", osmosis."

This is the statement I want the people to think about....the message I want to drive home! It is terrifying to think of the consequences of doing nothing.

[westernvicki]

Exactly, farmaholic!

Worked in the industry long enough to hear circumstances that are more than difficult on the farmer and a farm unit after divorce. And while, personal support will always be necessary in a divorce, the valuation of assets and inherited assets as divisional property, is indeed a challenge. Even more so at today valuations, and income.

[farmaholic]

And then Elaine Froese writes about the problem of the old generation that is unwilling to let go of control....is it any wonder under the circumstances I pointed out. Even if the damn farm was bought by the farming children at full value, who wants to see their children have to buy half the land again at full value? The whole thing is a can of worms....laws and lawyers will likely have a heyday challenging anything set up to protect the families interest.

Thanks to everyone who contributed to the discussion.

[blackpowder]

OK. You sold it. Its no longer yours. It goes up in value or is lost by the buyer.
Get the word fair out of your vocabulary. I know what you mean but it only hurts you to think that way.
Would it be more fair if your son was killed and it all went to daughterin law?
How many years of marriage make it fair to you the seller?
Did the wife give up an education or career?
Is it fair to have a 50 yr old daughter in law with $.30 on the dollar after 30 yrs?
Is it more fair to have an in law that works their ass off or sits on it all day. Same to the law.
You have a valid question. It seems youve answered it for yourself. How it looks on paper dunno.

Elaine Froese seems to mean well but her articles and audience are safe topics for her. Geared to the majority of the paying audience. Disney hour. Youre trying to cya for the dark, ugly evil that no one talks about, and very few know about. Like finding an expert on zombies.

[bucket]

The next generation has to buy the farm after they did the work to keep mom and dad living well.....there in lies part of the problem.....50 year olds worn out keeping the 75 year old financially healthy but still not willing to let go....so two generations try to retire at the same time.


Not in all cases but too many.

[sumdumguy]

Back to the Future - Anyone have a time machine to take back to1985? I would like to be the first time machine traveller.

[farmaholic]

With everything that needs to be taken into account, there are too many possibilities to say one size fits all or the outcome "should" or even "could" possibly be the same for everyone....

Just good eye opening discussion here...