Tailings ponds a toxic legacy of Alberta's oilsands

[Oliver88]

I.F. claims oilsands have no economic value in Canada?
Hard to take anyone serious if they make this claim.


I.F. do you think we should import oil from Venezuala, Somalia or Saudi Arabia instead of using petroleum from the Oilsands?

[Integrity_Farmer]

Oliver

It is hard to take anyone seriously that does not read much less comprehend. What I explained was the energy balance or the return on energy ROE. Tar sands is a loser it takes more energy in the total process than is recovered in BTU's. I mentioned a study that comes from the Alberta government that confirms this.

If you have contrary information please provide it.

[Oliver88]

Oliver

It is hard to take anyone seriously that does not read much less comprehend. What I explained was the energy balance or the return on energy ROE. Tar sands is a loser it takes more energy in the total process than is recovered in BTU's. I mentioned a study that comes from the Alberta government that confirms this.

If you have contrary information please provide it.

Re-read what you posted and specifically the last 6 words.
"....it has no economic value for the country".

One thing most socialists don't realize is that funding for social programs have to come from somewhere.

So now tell us if Canadian oil is so evil where do you propose we import it from???

[Integrity_Farmer]

Re-read what you posted and specifically the last 6 words.
"....it has no economic value for the country".

One thing most socialists don't realize is that funding for social programs have to come from somewhere.

So now tell us if Canadian oil is so evil where do you propose we import it from???

Oliver

It doesn't matter is you are a socialist or a conservative or Liberal. The issue is do you gain energy?

The fact that it takes 1 unit of energy (mainly natural gas ) to create 1 unit of energy as the Alberta Study I quoted indicated. Then we can only conclude "tar sands crude has no economic value for the country".


What study or report do you have that indicates your are actually gaining energy with tar sands bitumen.

[Integrity_Farmer]

[QUOTE=Integrity_Farmer;339002]Oliver

It doesn't matter is you are a socialist or a conservative or Liberal. The issue is do you gain energy?

The fact that it takes 1 unit of energy (mainly natural gas) to create 1 unit of energy from tar sands bitumen as the Alberta Study I quoted indicated. From this information we can only conclude "tar sands crude has no economic value for the country".

This would be comparable to planting a bushel of wheat and harvesting a bushel in the fall.

The drop in crude prices clearly shows what happens to the high cost tar sands oil process. It is an economic disaster.

What study or report do you have that indicates your are actually gaining energy with tar sands bitumen.

[blackpowder]

In your little world it sounds like we cant even have both.
Your choice of 'tar' sand is proof of where you stand.

[Oliver88]

http://static1.squarespace.com/static/557705f1e4b0c73f726133e1/t/55f9c9e1e4b0c00ab5cf2d3e/1442433505501/CERI+Study+152+-+Final+Report.pdf

Start on page 57 for economic impact on Canadian economy.

[Oliver88]

Regardless of the potential BTU/hrs that the NG contain there is a HUGE impact on our economy which a lot of our social programs are funded by and hundreds of thousands of Canadians income is derived from.

From2015 to 2035 there will be an economic impact of slightly over $4 trillion in Canada!


Since I.F. wants us to shut down the Oilsands what is the recommended location we should acquire oil from?
Venezuala, Somalia, Saudi Arabia, Russia?

[tweety]

Oliver, obviously there isn't enough income in all that oil for alberta to even break even, let alone amass even more debt. That's pathetic.

They are literally giving it away.

[Oliver88]

Oliver, obviously there isn't enough income in all that oil for alberta to even break even, let alone amass even more debt. That's pathetic.

They are literally giving it away.

If profits are not there why is Suncor and CNQ investing billions to extract bitumen....likely foolish investments. 😂
Aside from Alberta collecting $1-9 billion annually on royalties not to mention billions on income taxes, spin off jobs/industries maybe the provincial NDP should just shut it down to make IF farmer happy since too much natural gas is used in the SAGD process.

After the Oilsands are shut down which safe country should we purchase "ethical" oil from?

[Integrity_Farmer]

This headline says it all

Norway's Oil Fund Heads For $1 Trillion; So Where Is Alberta's Pot Of Gold?

http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2014/01/11/oil-fund-norway-millionaires_n_4576887.html

How many billions is Alberta in debt?

Anyone that thinks that oil revenues in Alberta are doing anything to pay for social programs is delusional. The oil revenue would not even pay for the polluted mess that has been created.

What is preventing Alberta from receiving the kind of revenue from their oil resources that Norway has accumulated? Notley simply follows the same regressive policies as the previous conservative governments.

How many billions is Alberta in Debt? It is laughable to say Alberta is using Oil revenue to pay for social programs. If they copied the Norway model they could.

We don't need to import oil, we have oil and we should have a Canada first policy.

My original post was about tailing ponds near and contaminating the Athabaska river. From the responses I received it seems that most that responded are happy with that situation and polluting the Athabasca river is OK. What will it cost future generations to clean up the up the oil industry mess in Alberta?

Since the year 2000 Alberta has Cleared or degrading two million acres) of boreal forest for tar sands production.

The tar sands region stretches more than 500 million hectares (1.24 billion acres) roughly 14 times the size of California. Is it acceptable to degrade this area under boreal forest to ship bitumen to the US by pipeline?

What would some so called restoration of 1.24 billion acres cost, look like and who would pay for the clean up. How many tailings ponds would that require? How many gallons of fresh water and natural gas would be required?

[farmaholic]

Obviously the money is in private hands and not government hands. Would there have been as much wealth generated if more was "diverted"(higher taxes or higher royalties) to government coffers?

[vvalk]

Some interesting points about energy balance geothermal, solar etc
I understand that you cannot gain energy with tar sands tar (this is not crude) Why the natural gas and fresh water for this extraction?

A detailed energy balance analysis sponsored by the Alberta Government for SAGD (stem assisted gravity drainage) suggests that its EROI (energy return on investment) is close to 1:1. That makes bitumen a source of energy as pathetic and tragic as corn ethanol. Given that natural gas has an EROI almost as high as conventional oil, many energy experts regard the use of natural gas for bitumen production as folly.

John Diefenbaker once set up the National Energy Board that required 30 years of proven reserves before EXPORTS of oil and gas were permitted. Diefenbaker had a Canada first policy that no longer exists in Canadian politics.

I have never advocated removal of energy from farming as there are so many other wasteful uses of energy in our country such as passenger cars, truck transportation and lack of proper insulation in homes Of course alternative energy with positive EROI such as hydro geothermal wind and solar depending on location.

Since Mr. Vanderwalk a board member of the Western Canadian Wheat Growers advocated for the elimination of the Crow Rate and the abandonment of the rail lines he has provided failed solutions for farmers and the country. Rail transportation is known to be 10 times more energy efficient as transport truck.

Having massive tail-lings ponds leaking into the Athabasca river may be acceptable to a few posters on here but it is not acceptable to a majority of informed Canadians. Tar sands crude is a disaster for the ecology of Albertan and it has no economic value to our country

Thanks for the credit but I was just a young kid when the crow rate stuff was going on. Again thanks for spelling my name wrong. I guess if you can't cut and paste it all goes wrong. And I don't hide behind an unknown handle when I make my comments unlike you.

[Integrity_Farmer]

Thanks for the credit but I was just a young kid when the crow rate stuff was going on. Again thanks for spelling my name wrong. I guess if you can't cut and paste it all goes wrong. And I don't hide behind an unknown handle when I make my comments unlike you.

I am sure you have been around when the WGTA Crow benefit was removed in 2002 by the Chretian government and the Crow buy out took place. The Crow buy out was the plan or policy put forward by the Western Canadian Wheat Growers. Farmers now pay up to a dollar a bushel to ship their grain. I am sure farmers do not thank you for that.

As you will also know the WCWG was well financed by the corporate grain industry.

Many WCWG members including yourself attempted to get elected on the CWB board of directors but failed. The farmers never voted to end the CWB it was stolen from the farmers by the Harper government.

My apologies concerning the spelling of your name.

[stonepicker]

i f ( not a farmer ) = troll