Tailings ponds a toxic legacy of Alberta's oilsands

[Oliver88]

Oliver, obviously there isn't enough income in all that oil for alberta to even break even, let alone amass even more debt. That's pathetic.

They are literally giving it away.

If profits are not there why is Suncor and CNQ investing billions to extract bitumen....likely foolish investments. 😂
Aside from Alberta collecting $1-9 billion annually on royalties not to mention billions on income taxes, spin off jobs/industries maybe the provincial NDP should just shut it down to make IF farmer happy since too much natural gas is used in the SAGD process.

After the Oilsands are shut down which safe country should we purchase "ethical" oil from?

[Integrity_Farmer]

This headline says it all

Norway's Oil Fund Heads For $1 Trillion; So Where Is Alberta's Pot Of Gold?

http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2014/01/11/oil-fund-norway-millionaires_n_4576887.html

How many billions is Alberta in debt?

Anyone that thinks that oil revenues in Alberta are doing anything to pay for social programs is delusional. The oil revenue would not even pay for the polluted mess that has been created.

What is preventing Alberta from receiving the kind of revenue from their oil resources that Norway has accumulated? Notley simply follows the same regressive policies as the previous conservative governments.

How many billions is Alberta in Debt? It is laughable to say Alberta is using Oil revenue to pay for social programs. If they copied the Norway model they could.

We don't need to import oil, we have oil and we should have a Canada first policy.

My original post was about tailing ponds near and contaminating the Athabaska river. From the responses I received it seems that most that responded are happy with that situation and polluting the Athabasca river is OK. What will it cost future generations to clean up the up the oil industry mess in Alberta?

Since the year 2000 Alberta has Cleared or degrading two million acres) of boreal forest for tar sands production.

The tar sands region stretches more than 500 million hectares (1.24 billion acres) roughly 14 times the size of California. Is it acceptable to degrade this area under boreal forest to ship bitumen to the US by pipeline?

What would some so called restoration of 1.24 billion acres cost, look like and who would pay for the clean up. How many tailings ponds would that require? How many gallons of fresh water and natural gas would be required?

[farmaholic]

Obviously the money is in private hands and not government hands. Would there have been as much wealth generated if more was "diverted"(higher taxes or higher royalties) to government coffers?

[vvalk]

Some interesting points about energy balance geothermal, solar etc
I understand that you cannot gain energy with tar sands tar (this is not crude) Why the natural gas and fresh water for this extraction?

A detailed energy balance analysis sponsored by the Alberta Government for SAGD (stem assisted gravity drainage) suggests that its EROI (energy return on investment) is close to 1:1. That makes bitumen a source of energy as pathetic and tragic as corn ethanol. Given that natural gas has an EROI almost as high as conventional oil, many energy experts regard the use of natural gas for bitumen production as folly.

John Diefenbaker once set up the National Energy Board that required 30 years of proven reserves before EXPORTS of oil and gas were permitted. Diefenbaker had a Canada first policy that no longer exists in Canadian politics.

I have never advocated removal of energy from farming as there are so many other wasteful uses of energy in our country such as passenger cars, truck transportation and lack of proper insulation in homes Of course alternative energy with positive EROI such as hydro geothermal wind and solar depending on location.

Since Mr. Vanderwalk a board member of the Western Canadian Wheat Growers advocated for the elimination of the Crow Rate and the abandonment of the rail lines he has provided failed solutions for farmers and the country. Rail transportation is known to be 10 times more energy efficient as transport truck.

Having massive tail-lings ponds leaking into the Athabasca river may be acceptable to a few posters on here but it is not acceptable to a majority of informed Canadians. Tar sands crude is a disaster for the ecology of Albertan and it has no economic value to our country

Thanks for the credit but I was just a young kid when the crow rate stuff was going on. Again thanks for spelling my name wrong. I guess if you can't cut and paste it all goes wrong. And I don't hide behind an unknown handle when I make my comments unlike you.

[Integrity_Farmer]

Thanks for the credit but I was just a young kid when the crow rate stuff was going on. Again thanks for spelling my name wrong. I guess if you can't cut and paste it all goes wrong. And I don't hide behind an unknown handle when I make my comments unlike you.

I am sure you have been around when the WGTA Crow benefit was removed in 2002 by the Chretian government and the Crow buy out took place. The Crow buy out was the plan or policy put forward by the Western Canadian Wheat Growers. Farmers now pay up to a dollar a bushel to ship their grain. I am sure farmers do not thank you for that.

As you will also know the WCWG was well financed by the corporate grain industry.

Many WCWG members including yourself attempted to get elected on the CWB board of directors but failed. The farmers never voted to end the CWB it was stolen from the farmers by the Harper government.

My apologies concerning the spelling of your name.

[stonepicker]

i f ( not a farmer ) = troll

[Integrity_Farmer]

i f ( not a farmer ) = troll

Sorry to disappoint you stonepicker

[vvalk]

I am sure you have been around when the WGTA Crow benefit was removed in 2002 by the Chretian government and the Crow buy out took place. The Crow buy out was the plan or policy put forward by the Western Canadian Wheat Growers. Farmers now pay up to a dollar a bushel to ship their grain. I am sure farmers do not thank you for that.

As you will also know the WCWG was well financed by the corporate grain industry.

Many WCWG members including yourself attempted to get elected on the CWB board of directors but failed. The farmers never voted to end the CWB it was stolen from the farmers by the Harper government.

My apologies concerning the spelling of your name.

In 2002 I just finished university and had just started farming back on my family farm. Didn't even know the WCWGA existed then. My dad would have been a member but never a director. I didn't get on the board till 2007 or 2008. Your right I did try to run in the elections but when you say farmers voted give me a break. I received more phone calls from Regina and Saskatoon of 80+ year old farmers who were hard core cwb supporters, hadn't put a crop in in 20 years. incorporated farms no matter how many shareholders received one vote in those elections but smaller farms partnership,s in some cases I saw, received 8 votes. 1500 acre farms getting 8 votes and 10000+ farms get 1 vote. 160 acre retired farmers in the city get 1 vote and 30000+ acre farm gets 1 vote.
Yes I was very fortunate to lead the grain growers of Canada during the 3 years the Harper govt eliminated the single desk. My grandfather would have been very proud

[Integrity_Farmer]

i f ( not a farmer ) = troll

Sorry to disappoint you stone I am a farmer as is my son. We actually make my entire income from farming.

[Integrity_Farmer]

vvalk

Seems you have the same problem as Donald Trump rigged elections. You like Trump seems to have alternative facts as well?

[vvalk]

vvalk

Seems you have the same problem as Donald Trump rigged elections. You like Trump seems to have alternative facts as well?

Explain how what isn't the fact?. Some farms got 8 votes and some got 1. ANy partner in a partnership could vote. not true for shareholders in a corporation
Silly to compare a business election to a election where you elect new governments in a country.
A CWB election should be more like a public company election where your number of votes are based on the number of shares you ow. A farm that deliver 20T can cancel the vote of a multi generational multi family owned incorporated 10000 0r even 50000 acre farm's vote. Could be 20 individuals involved
Whats facts are being scued?
If I'm not mistaken, its the Clinton supporters who are crying foul that she got the popular vote and lost

[blackpowder]

Once more and yet again. IFarmer. Will you or will you not accept some responsibility for the eventual demise of the _ _ _? If not personally then on behalf of the inflexible zealots who laid the groundwork for civil war decades before the event??
If you cannot see even a little, how your mindset and methods became the root cause for failure then any further exchange is futile.
If I cannot read your posts as entertainment only it becomes on me to remove you from my agriville. As you no longer represent any other of the population it is no longer necessary to read you.

Really, it would be like me claiming that climate has never changed and never will so help me God and this rock under which I reside. Siding with those who would make public climate change denial against the law and also wanting a frozen system for all of us where ideas not supported by you are treated as heresy.
Your kind cannot acknowledge when opponents concede a little, only all. Neither can you concede any at all on your part. Complete inflexibility. Blind crusader become zealot become anachronism.