China’s advancement in solar-technology production has reduced prices to a point that

[Hamloc]

Thanks for your patients and wisdom Greybeard. Some days I have patients some day I don't lol.

[malleefarmer]

I'm lost here not a chuck chuck basher read his posts like all sometimes agree sometimes disagree but have you changed to wind/solar chuck gut feel suggests you must have or in the process?

In the depths of a Canadian winter you still need back up chuck or is that were wind comes in you have both on your ranch?

My cost in SA is 46c per kwh and a 70 cents per day supply charge. We are the clean green state highest renewable amount in Australia. Target in SA is 50% renewable enrgy by 2020 doubt we will make it must be currently on maybe 30%.

NSW most populated state uses clean coal?? 24 cents per kwh but supply charge per day is higher 88 cents.

Gas is 2.5 cents per mj sure you guys know what gas quote means.

How does that stack up against you guys?? Its well known we have highest or second highest electricity prices in the world

[oneoff]

Solar power, of course, has a number of disadvantages. Outside a revolution in electrical storage, solar’s obvious inability to generate power in the dark will keep it from ever dominating entire electrical systems the way coal, natural gas, nuclear and even hydro do to supply base-load power. In a high-latitude country like Canada, solar faces an even greater disadvantage in winter months.

Be sure to check out the source of that quote and understand it effect

For other than the minority types like chucky...do not be deceived. You still need practically the same backups as nuclear in Ontario and coal and oil fired in rest of world. Hydro power is real handy too. The nuclear isn't at all palatable to chucky or this planet. Hydro unfortunately isn't a large scale solution for even electrical needs of the majority of the world.

Then there are the fact that tariffs protect Canadian manufacturers from those cheap Chinese prices in Canada and the USA. That's not likely to change given the Trump phenomena for evenn that one reason alone

And all these points have been mentioned a dozen times already

And chuck hasn't made his move yet and won't until he gets a guaranteed subsidy upfront from our going bankrupt provincial and federal governments.

There are also additional paragraphs of other sobering thoughts hidden within the pages of chucks republished propaganda, advertising and hype. Too tired and too busy to point them out just now. No doubt have to try to rebut in near future as premature propaganda' omitted important unrealistic points and solutions get pushed in our faces again and again.

Suffice it to say that the necessary backup (eg batteries and/or more appropriate and dependable grid tie are omitted in these shallow blanket advertisement as provided.. Also the 75% (or likely much higher proportion of other costs than panels for a reliable sytem get conveniently marginalized

Take for example the fact that almost all current grid tied solar (in about 100% of current grid tied systems) shuts down during utility outages. Yes I said your solar system is fukin useless without a whole game changing battery backup and/or "charger" add on It even gets real complicated...but nothing unlimited subsidies couldn't fix for a minority of real pigs (subsidy hogs)

One day solar will come to all our neck of the woods. And its time will come without increasing public debt and at expense of someone or some else's future.

Do not necessarily follow a chuck....just because they have some type of clipping service. The advise sch people give is only of use to a public who invests in weighing what is not provided. And in that current absence....much more damage is done in spreading skewed and partial information to those incapable of making informed decisions

What works for them ((or coincidentally isn't working for them because they don't have or see solar in their immediate future)) is a warning they either haven't put all the pieces together themselves...or are just on a mission to railroad the rest of us into their much bigger agenda.

[chuckChuck]

Mallee. Saskatchewan where I farm we pay 11.8 cents per kwh. Hamloc pays less in Alberta so our rates are very low cost. Even in Ontario where there are some renewables I think they pay less than 20 cents depending on location as they use a higher delivery charge to rural customers. In Ontario cities I believe cost are below 15 cents per Kwh.

In Saskatchewan city dwellers subsidize rural rates, as the actual cost of transmission to sparsely populated rural areas is much higher than what is being charged. This is a good policy as it levels the costs for all consumers. Saskpower is owned by the government.

But Canada has lots of water for hydro and fossil fuels. Some of the cheapest rates are in Quebec and Manitoba where they have lots of hydro.

What were electricity prices like before the advent of renewables in australia?

Sakatchewan which is governed by a Conservative who is very supportive of the resource sector is still planning on 50% renewables by 2030. This will be mostly wind and hydro. We have lots of natural gas. There is still a lot wasted gas in the oil areas because of flaring which is the burning off of gas associated with the oil production.

Saskatchewan will likely be converting some of its coal generation to gas in the near future as gas is cheap and much cleaner. Carbon capture and storage has been used on a retrofitted coal plant. But the cost is currently very high.

Do you believe in the peer reviewed science that shows that global warming is largely caused by humans?

[Hamloc]

Actually Chuck2 in Alberta I pay 6.8 cents for power. By the time you include distribution, transmission and administration my total cost per kwh is 18.8 cents. With a bi-directional meter you are only credited for the 6.8 cent portion. With a grid-tie system you still pay the other 13 cents per kwh even if you produce all your own power.

[greybeard]

Hey Chucky I read that whole post.
Maybe the first time ever.
Good post too.

[chuckChuck]

Hamloc thanks for the clarification. I was thinking back to our discussion on the viability of solar.

Too bad you can't be credited for all your costs in Alberta as then installing a grid tied solar pv system would definitely make sense as Boyd solar's estimate is that you can lock in 10 cents per kwh over 30 years.

I had heard that Alberta's electricity costs had gone up after privatization. When I look at Saskpower's farm rates, we are getting a pretty good deal relative to Alberta.

I sure hope Brad Wall doesn't sell off Sask Power and Sask Tel as I am sure our rates would go up and we would then pay higher distribution costs in rural areas. It seems like that rural distribution costs are high which makes sense if you believe in user pay based on distance and low population.

Saskatchewan's system is definitely fairer to rural.

[chuckChuck]

Thanks Greybeard. I am not as wild eyed and radical in person as some may think. I believe in affordable solutions and new technology where appropriate. We will be dependent on fossil energy for a long time yet. I just think solar and other renewables should be part of the landscape along with minimizing waste and increasing efficiency.

I think Ontario mismanaged their electrical system.

I hope that renewables become widely accepted without subisdies although we do susbsidize fossil energy indirecly and directly as well so maybe we need to level the playing field. In some cases subsidies can and should be used to kick start innovation and adoption.

[vvalk]

Hamloc thanks for the clarification. I was thinking back to our discussion on the viability of solar.

Too bad you can't be credited for all your costs in Alberta as then installing a grid tied solar pv system would definitely make sense as Boyd solar's estimate is that you can lock in 10 cents per kwh over 30 years.

I had heard that Alberta's electricity costs had gone up after privatization. When I look at Saskpower's farm rates, we are getting a pretty good deal relative to Alberta.

I sure hope Brad Wall doesn't sell off Sask Power and Sask Tel as I am sure our rates would go up and we would then pay higher distribution costs in rural areas. It seems like that rural distribution costs are high which makes sense if you believe in user pay based on distance and low population.

Saskatchewan's system is definitely fairer to rural.

Chuck chuck using classic left wing defect tactics. Unless I missed it you have been asked many many times if you have shut off your pipes going into your house and run exclusively off the grid? If your farming and in Saskatchewan then guaranteed you haven't.
I am building a house now and have looked into it. Minimum cost for a system that would come close to self sufficiently ( but not, so you need to be hooked up and pay the transmission and distribution costs for both elec and gas. For most in Alberta that is 75% of your bill) is $160000 . So putting anything back into the grid is useless when you only account for 25-30% of what your bill is being reversed. The system is also quite maintenance and replacement heavy.

[vvalk]

Chuck chuck using classic left wing defect tactics. Unless I missed it you have been asked many many times if you have shut off your pipes going into your house and run exclusively off the grid? If your farming and in Saskatchewan then guaranteed you haven't.
I am building a house now and have looked into it. Minimum cost for a system that would come close to self sufficiently ( but not, so you need to be hooked up and pay the transmission and distribution costs for both elec and gas. For most in Alberta that is 75% of your bill) is $160000 . So putting anything back into the grid is useless when you only account for 25-30% of what your bill is being reversed. The system is also quite maintenance and replacement heavy.

If anyone thinks that $160k isn't right. $90k for geothermal. 2 options. 6-8 holes 300ft deep or at least 1 acre besides your septic field to run lateral lines 10-12ft deep.Need heater exchangers and boiler type systems with in floor heat throughout the house
Solar is $70k with batteries ( never hear enviros talking about the environmental footprint of batteries. Chuck any cut and pastes on that?). Need rotating solar panels and large roof or ground areas. High maintenance costs goin forward
So in other words anyone looking to do this off the grid stuff can't live in cities or towns. So 90% of the population. Never mind 95% can't afford it
Also electrical generating needs to be build for peak demand even if that last only for 30 mins a day.
How about businesses and factories chuck? Can they use solar or geothermal? Talk about sticking your head in the sand!

[samhill]

Hydro One CEO’s pay of $4 million with bonus approaches ...