CWB and farmer control sorry chuck chuck

[chuckChuck]

Mallee. Many farmers here were willing to give up control of the grain handling system and transportation through their Coop grain handlers and the CWB for some utopian "marketing freedom".

It has been replaced with multinational companies who have no loyalty to Canadian farmers and the profits go elsewhere.

Farmers could have had a bigger share of the profits and a whole lot more say, but many farmers seem to prefer to bend over for the big companies.

As you can see on Agriville there are still a lot of complaints about wheat prices and predatory grain company behavior under "marketing freedom".

But that does not seem to register the same concern as the CWB.

So if the CEO made all the decisions why did your friend sit on the Board of the AWB? Sounds like he was wasting his time.

I have met several of the former CWB directors and they certainly had a lot more input than just nodding their heads in agreement with the CEO.

[blackpowder]

The Crow had taxpayers pay up to 1/3 of freight if to ocean port.
All the 10 car spot elevators loaded uncleaned grain. Cleaned or resold at port. Screenings sold at port.
Keep in mind US winter wheat loaded Portland would have little or no natural dockage yet be shipped up to tolerance if profitable. Loaded (malt) barley myself for WA feedlots. Taxpayers bought railcars which are now wore out. RRs not encouraged to invest at all as poor margin. Capped rates. Still exist. All the rats behind the scene did very well for decades all the while keeping the uneducated peasants in the dark. Penalties for heresy. After it gone, AB feedlot alley exploded. 20 years before board gone.
Traditionally and still today, the core support lies the furthest from port.
Areas where wheat and durum grow very well and very easily. Areas with sometimes questionable rail service.
Areas with the most freight and the least diversification. (Traditionally) Like siblings at a trough constantly squeeling nothing fair to them. Everything had to be equal. No one allowed an opportunity unless shared with all prairie growers. The investment in diversification for all grains in last few years amazing. Commercial storage capacity etc. I could go on.
Dont for a second believe the banshees on here Mallee. Their kind only useful when a dictator needs someone to force total control. Altered reality. Like my ex.

[blackpowder]

Remember in 05 selling bran frosted high pro good falling number wheat for $2 a bushel.
Visual grading ruled and the leviathan with the remote, pea brain said their "traditional buyers" didnt want.

Had wet snow melting into a pile and was denied "permission" to sell it.

The bloody list is a mile long and has been worn thru like an old record.
None of which happens today.

The enforcers list is short, repetitive, and false.

[Braveheart]

The "Crow Rate" was a government legislated rail freight rate. It was unsustainable as freight rates from 1897 couldn't possibly cover cost as they rose into the 20th century. No new investment in motive power, railcars or improvements to rail were happening. There was some minor tinkering but, in the mid eighties the Liberal Govt passed the Western Grain Transportation Act.

The WGTA was like an annuity. Freight rates were eligible for a subsidy if they touched tidewater. The subsidy declined over the years with the govt paying less and producers paying more of the tariffs. In the mid nineties with little of the subsidy left the Liberal govt of the day scrapped the whole thing.

Elevator rationalization was taking place anyway. The loss of the WGTA had little to do with it. It's just the way mode business has trended.

The biggest debate over the WGTA was who should receive the subsidy often called the Crow benefit. Chucks team sided with the Prairie Pools to insist the railways receive the benefit. The Wheat Growers, cattle producer organizations and a few others said the farmers should receive the benefit to remove an export slanted distortion from the marketplace.

In the end, and Trudeau admitted his mistake later, the govt sided with the Pools, NFU, and the railways and the decision changed prairie agriculture really forever.

[malleefarmer]

Upcountry rail service to here shut down everywere in last 15 years but sites many of them closed maybe 2/3 but other still open, goes into same elevator were rail loading facilities still stand.
Instead b doubles park under it and transport it to port or my local A class site were its unloaded then reloaded onto a train at later date for delivery to port.

Don't know ins and outs of rail costing but must be super costly and or inefficient compared to trucks don't know how at times, though our roads unlike utopian Canadian paved highways everywere are a disgrace gravel mostly here most not b double rated but used anyway exasperating wear and tear issues.

At least you guys have healthy transport infrastructure or roads looked ok last time I was there way back when 96 might have changed tad

[farmaholic]

Mallee. That's 20 years ago. Since then lots of grain got diverted off rails onto roads that were never built to withstand the size of loads and volume of heavy traffic. A result of elevator closure and consolidation. Thin membrane black top "highways" that look like they've been bombed. One by us doesn't allow trucks heavier than 8 tonne on --- our tandem is heavier than that empty!

[malleefarmer]

Mallee. That's 20 years ago. Since then lots of grain got diverted off rails onto roads that were never built to withstand the size of loads and volume of heavy traffic. A result of elevator closure and consolidation. Thin membrane black top "highways" that look like they've been bombed. One by us doesn't allow trucks heavier than 8 tonne on --- our tandem is heavier than that empty!

same issues here.

next state on Victoria there are private storage sites everywere owned by multi nationals, groups of farmers, grain merchants you name it helps keep a lot off the road some near rail for export others domestic

you saying I'm old 20 years ago makes it sound like last century........

[jdepape]

Man! You go away for a while, thinking the whole CWB thing is history, and the first time I look at Agriville in a long time, this is what I see!

Does any of this matter any more? Really.

Integrity-Farmer says CWB haters are ideologues that make political statements with no information and data to back it up. I would say there was some of that on both sides of the argument. But when it came to the farmers on the CWB board, it was my experience (in dealing with numerous issues) that they were DRIVEN by ideology. Everything they said and did was for the sole purpose of promoting the virtues of the CWB, whether it was true or not.

Perhaps my favourite is how they dealt with demurrage and despatch. They would brag about all the despatch they were earning - at annual regional meetings I heard board members explain the millions in despatch "earnings" explaining it as an indication of doing a great job of logistics - all this money going to farmers was one more example of the value of the single desk.

Bullshit.

A shipper earns despatch by loading a vessel faster than contracted. Say you tell the ship owner you need 10 days to load - the freight rate then includes those 10 days - the CWB would pay for 10 days of vessel time to load. And if they load in 6 days, they would "earn" 4 days of despatch. Despatch is typically 1/2 the daily rate. So you pay full rate for those 4 days - and get back half of it in despatch.

For every $1 million they got in despatch, they PAID $2 million in freight they didn't neeed. Despatch actually costs you money!

That was bad enough, but the "farmer-elected" board decided they needed to take steps to ensure they could brag about "earning" despatch all the time. The CWB actually over-booked freight - over-booking their required days to load - just so they could "earn" despatch more often. It became to be known as "CWB load terms". The reason they could do it was because it just got buried in the pool accounts (less money for farmers).

And then, the cherry on top - earning despatch became a "management performance measure".

All this because of "farmer control".

[bucket]

If you look at the current Baltic dry index ....there is a reason there is 2.5 mmt of floating space playing tetris out west....if the grain cos were in the previous era of freight rates there wouldn't be January contracts still sitting on there books ....they would be current and taking next month's contracts.....it's a ****ed up situation....

I agree the cwb debate should be put aside for reference to issues that are comparable.

The backlog and excuses are unacceptable ....the supply chain should be building for the future not the past....that means railways and graincos should build for 100 million tonnes not settle for a 40 million tonne shipping program.

Grain cos just have to run longer hours to solve their problems ....the railways......are the bottleneck....and will be for a very long time.

[Braveheart]

JDepspe, thanks for the lesson on despatch.

Yes the CWB debate should be dead and gone. It's just that I was so sick of cut and pasties about carbon and renewables that it was a fun distraction to renew some old hostilities.

[stonepicker]

Too bad eastern canada wasn't forced to be part of the cwb's ironclad grip on the balls, the --- would've been gone 50 years ago then. If the board had any worth, the east would've wanted to be part of it. Free at last!!

[blackpowder]

I should also apologize for feeding the bear. But I cant apologize for hollering bullshit once in a while. Never forget!
Interesting social history lesson in there.
I tried to stay off here for a while because of the green onslaught.
Any concerns that the same people support both? Speaks to me.

[Hamloc]

Jdepape, Stonepicker agree with both of you. Personally I am glad the CWB is gone, old news. It is amazing to me that Chuck2 and I are consistently on opposite sides of the fence, you would think that once and while we would find common ground.

[wakopa]

Keep reading. The more you read the funnier it gets


The two most important events in all of history were the invention of beer and the invention of the wheel. Beer required grain and that was the beginning of agriculture.

Neither the glass bottle nor aluminum can were invented yet, so while our early humans were sitting around waiting for them to be invented, they just stayed close to the brewery. That's how villages were formed.

The wheel was invented to get man to the beer and vice versa. These two were the foundation of modern civilization and together were the catalyst for the splitting of humanity into two distinct subgroups:
1. Liberals.
2. Conservatives.

Some men spent their days tracking and killing animals to BBQ at night while they were drinking beer. This was the beginning of what is known as the Conservative movement.

Other men who were less skilled at hunting (called 'vegetarians' which was an early human word meaning 'bad hunter') learned to live off the Conservatives by showing up for the nightly BBQ's and doing the sewing, fetching, and hairdressing. This was the beginning of the liberal movement.

Some of these liberal men evolved into women. Others became known as girlie-men. Some noteworthy liberal achievements include the domestication of cats, the invention of group therapy, group hugs, and the concept of democratic voting to decide how to divide the meat and beer that Conservatives provided.

Over the years Conservatives came to be symbolized by the largest, most powerful land animal on earth, the elephant. Liberals are symbolized by the jackass for obvious reasons.

Modern Liberals like lite beer (with lime added), but most prefer white wine or imported bottled water. They eat raw fish but like their beef well done. Sushi, tofu, and French food are standard liberal fare. Another interesting evolutionary side note: many liberal women have higher testosterone levels than their men.

Most college professors, social workers, personal injury attorneys, journalists, film makers in Hollywood , group therapists and community organizers are liberals. Liberals meddled in our national pastime and invented the designated hitter rule because it wasn't fair to make the pitcher also bat.

Conservatives drink real beer. They eat red meat and still provide for their women. Conservatives are members of the military, big game hunters, rodeo cowboys, lumberjacks, construction workers, firemen, medical doctors, police officers, engineers, corporate executives, athletes, airline pilots, and generally anyone who works productively. Conservatives who own companies hire other Conservatives who want to work for a living

Liberals produce little or nothing. They like to govern the producers and decide what to do with the production. Liberals believe Europeans are more enlightened than Americans. That is why most of the liberals remained in Europe when Conservatives were coming to America . They crept in after the Wild West was tamed and created a business of trying to get more for nothing.

Here ends today's lesson in world history. It should be noted that a liberal may have a momentary urge to angrily respond to this post

A Conservative will simply laugh and be so convinced of the absolute truth of this history that it will be shared immediately to other true believers and to just piss-off more liberals.

And there you have it. Let your next action reveal your true self, I'm going to grab a few beers and grill some steaks!

[seldomseen]

That is good Wakopa and it has me laughing out loud. As for Chuck he sure sees the world different than most.
That sound good I think I will go light the BBQ!