Sorrycut and paste on our ongoing energy saga isn south australia. Good read

[sofa.king]

When we go totally green in canada I can't wait till the Toronto and Vancouver cities have a blackout. Between the traffic chaos and the crime wave that will hit who will these greenish blame. I will sit back and smile while I get my generator fuelled up.

[oneoff]

About the time anyone gives me a sensible lecture on synchronous electrical generation vs. wind powered asynchronous power vs. inverter based systems...then I'll start to develop some respect for their knowledge. Seems that there is a reluctance to even accept what real life experience has proven to be a fact of life eg. Austrailia

Conversely; for those who know little about what they promote; perhaps they could first show some of their own cash...and perhaps a whole lot more commitment that is more confined to their own business.

The challenge for today is therefor; Explain in as many words as you choose...

windmills, windmills everywhere but not a volt to link. Hint : You could plagiarize a pretty succint answer from the headline post at the top of this thread

[chuckChuck]

There is an old adage in the media, "if it bleeds it leads" which means most often bad news is what is reported.

There is not much interest in reporting when everything is going well. As the business report by Reguly pointed out there are many jurisdictions where there are a lot of renewables and we don't hear about it. I wonder how Germany, France, Spain and China manage to integrate multiple sources into their grid? I am sure there are challenges but it must be going relatively well or we would be hearing about the blackouts.

I know many people seem to seize on any negative news to prove that renewables will cause the world economy to collapse. Perhaps for them anything that causes too much change to the status quo is a threat.

[SASKFARMER3]

Ok chuck bad news stories are lead article is correct. But why all the feel good stories on climate change etc. They pushed it forward without checking the facts. They make it seem that every one loves JT and his climate agenda and tax. Its the media that pushes the bullshit lie.

Wind solar are very costly and not so clean check it out cost to build each one. Those propellors don't come made from china.

But chuck its good to see you promote the feel good tec and never show the true cost.

States and Provinces and Countries that adapted it are going broke but yet its such a good energy.

[chuckChuck]

SF3 Many times I have posted the LCOE of energy cost comparisons from the US that show renewables as being cost competitive. Real case examples in China, Chile and the middle east show costs are often much lower than fossil sources. Solar at 2.4 cents per Kwh, compared to Sask power at 11.8 kwh cents retail.

So when you factor in all the hidden costs of fossil energy, pollution, health costs, environmental damage, and climate change then clean energy is much cheaper.

We are not there yet and we will still be dependent on fossil energy for a long while yet, but the transition is happening.

[chuckChuck]

Germany is not going broke by the way. Strongest economy in Europe! So again generalizations don't apply.

[stonepicker]

Someday i'll learn to cut and paste like ccc ( cut,paste,chuck ) but for now,. Thomas J pyle, pres. of inst.for energy research ( non-partisan ) says- " like spain, germany just another example of billions of tax dollars forced to support wind and solar energy without a hint of economic or enviromental benefits." Some key findings- Green jobs created by gov. actions dissappear as soon as gov. support is terminated.- gov. aid for windpower is now 3 times the cost of conventional electricity. This is part of a study on germany and renewable power.

[oneoff]

SF3 Many times I have posted the LCOE of energy cost comparisons from the US that show renewables as being cost competitive. Real case examples in China, Chile and the middle east show costs are often much lower than fossil sources. Solar at 2.4 cents per Kwh, compared to Sask power at 11.8 kwh cents retail.

So when you factor in all the hidden costs of fossil energy, pollution, health costs, environmental damage, and climate change then clean energy is much cheaper.

We are not there yet and we will still be dependent on fossil energy for a long while yet, but the transition is happening.

When the factors that are ignored are not considered in the equation; then inappropriate conclusions are jumped to.

All credibility is lost when the end conclusion is we will still be dependent on fossil energy for a long time yet.
Why wouldn't everyone be all in on 2.4 cent per kilowatt energy production when 5 times that amount doesn't come close to what our electrical grids apparently must charge?

And the classic example is that purveyors haven't taken their own beliefs and propaganda to heart. It seems that; everyone else must subsidize green energy promoters; and still we will be dependent on fossil fuels for a long time yet.

[chuckChuck]

When the factors that are ignored are not considered in the equation; then inappropriate conclusions are jumped to.

All credibility is lost when the end conclusion is we will still be dependent on fossil energy for a long time yet.
Why wouldn't everyone be all in on 2.4 cent per kilowatt energy production when 5 times that amount doesn't come close to what our electrical grids apparently must charge?

And the classic example is that purveyors haven't taken their own beliefs and propaganda to heart. It seems that; everyone else must subsidize green energy promoters; and still we will be dependent on fossil fuels for a long time yet.

Oneoff whether my arguments or the arguments of other convince you or not you cannot deny that solar, wind, tidal, bio-gas production is being installed and planned to be installed in numerous countries including in your own province.

I am not suggesting we can replace all fossil fuels in the forseeable future. We are in a transition. You seem to want no innovation or new technology at all. You have never ever suggested that renewables can be used at all. Meanwhile Saskpower is moving ahead with lots of wind and some solar. Have you got your head in the sand?

If 2.4 cents per kwh is before distribution costs it is pretty clear that it is still cheaper than new coal.

If your arguments is none of this stuff works or isn't feasible then you must be wrong.

You also forget to acknowledge that fossil energy is subsidized and has indirect and direct costs that are not accounted for. Environmental damage, additional health costs and climate change. Do you have any idea of what the total massive costs of those might be? Because when you talk about how cheap fossil energy is those costs need to be added in.

[Hamloc]

Chuck2 if solar power was 2.4 cents a kwh in Canada number 1 it would be installed everywhere and this is the most important point, it wouldn't require subsidization!!!!!

[chuckChuck]

From Bloomberg https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-05-03/solar-developers-undercut-coal-with-another-record-set-in-dubai

New Record Set for World's Cheapest Solar, Now Undercutting Coal
by Anna Hirtenstein
May 3, 2016, 10:20 AM CST

2.99 U.S. cents per kilowatt-hour is 15% lower than old record
Cheaper than new coal-fired electricity in the Gulf emirate

Solar power set another record-low price as renewable energy developers working in the United Arab Emirates shrugged off financial turmoil in the industry to promise projects costs that undercut even coal-fired generators.

Developers bid as little as 2.99 cents a kilowatt-hour to develop 800 megawatts of solar-power projects for the Dubai Electricity & Water Authority, the utility for the Persian Gulf emirate, announced on Sunday. That’s 15 percent lower than the previous record set in Mexico last month, according to Bloomberg New Energy Finance.

QuickTake Solar Energy

The lowest priced solar power has plunged almost 50 percent in the past year. Saudi Arabia’s Acwa Power International set a record in January 2015 by offering to build a portion of the same Dubai solar park for power priced at 5.85 cents per kilowatt-hour. Records were subsequently set in Peru and Mexico before Dubai reclaimed its mantel as purveyor of the world’s cheapest solar power.

“This bid tells us that some bidders are willing to risk a lot for the prestige of being the cheapest solar developer,” said Jenny Chase, head of solar analysis at BNEF. “Nobody knows how it’s meant to work.”

Plunging costs along with the bankruptcy for the biggest developer, SunEdison Inc., has spurred questions about whether the cheapest projects will ever be profitable. The collapse of the world’s largest renewable energy company made some banks wary of financing projects. The winners of recent auctions in Mexico, Peru and Chile were diversified power companies like Enel SpA, which perhaps prioritized market share over profit maximization.

Dubai’s utility didn’t identify the developers behind the record-low bid it received. MEED reported that it’s a group including Masdar Abu Dhabi Future Energy Co., Spain’s Fotowatio Renewable Ventures BV and Saudi Arabia’s Abdul Latif Jameel. Among those companies, only Masdar could be reached for comment, and it didn’t confirm that it was the low bidder.

“A consortium led by Masdar, Abu Dhabi’s renewable energy company, was one of a number of bidders to have submitted a proposal for the third phase of the Mohammed bin Rashid Al Maktoum Solar Park,” a spokesperson for the consortium said in an e-mailed statement. “This is an active bid, with the technical and commercial proposals being evaluated by Dubai Electricity and Water Authority.”
Tender Process

The shift to tenders from feed-in tariffs for clean energy globally has helped governments rein in support for renewables while prodding companies to deliver lower costs. That’s shifted pressure away from government budgets and toward developers, which must strike a balance between a winning new contracts and maintaining profits.

Enel Green Power’s Chief Executive Officer Francesco Venturini, whose company bid 3.5 cents a kilowatt hour in Mexico last month, said in an interview that his projects will still make decent money even with record-low prices for electricity.
Enel’s Strategy

“There is no value in winning without margin attached,” Venturini said in an interview in Brussels last month. “I have two investment committees and two boards of directors I need to present my projects to and they want to see the money attached to it. So trust me, there is margin.”

Dubai’s state utility said it received five bids for the 800-megawatt project, which will be the third phase of the Mohammed bin Rashid Al-Maktoum solar park. It has not awarded the building permits yet. The facility is planned to have a capacity of 5 gigawatts by 2030.

“This price is borderline in terms of viability, but it’s an outlier project,” said Josefin Berg, solar analyst at IHS Inc., an industry researcher. “The size of the installation makes it easier to get good conditions on their procurement. It shouldn’t be used as a benchmark.”

The 2.99 cents bid for the solar project is a third lower than the electricity that will be generated by a coal plant commissioned by Dubai in October. That facility, set to begin generating in 2020, is expected to feed power onto the grid at 4.501 cents per kilowatt-hour under a 25-year power purchase agreement.

[chuckChuck]

Lowest-Ever Solar Price Bid (2.42¢/kWh) Dropped In Abu Dhabi By JinkoSolar & Marubeni Score
https://cleantechnica.com/2016/09/20/lowest-ever-solar-price-bid-2-42%C2%A2kwh-dropped-abu-dhabi-jinkosolar-marubeni-score/
September 20th, 2016 by Saurabh Mahapatra

Originally published on CleanTechies

The United Arab Emirates has seen yet another record-breaking solar power tariff bid. Abu Dhabi received the lowest-ever bid for a solar PV project at a shocking 2.42¢/kWh, taking back the title of cheapest solar power project from Chile.

The record-breaking bid has been submitted by a consortium of Chinese module manufacturer JinkoSolar and Japanese developer Marubeni.

lowest-solar-price-bids

Abu Dhabi Electricity and Water Authority received a total of 6 bids for the proposed 350 MW solar PV project planned to be built in the town of Swaihan, Abu Dhabi. Out of 6 bids, the lowest ever bid of 2.42¢/kWh has been submitted by the JinkoSolar–Marubeni consortium. The results of the tender are not out yet, as authorities will now evaluate the proposals for technical and economic viability.

The current bid of 2.42¢/kWh is the lowest so far globally, and by quite a bit — it is shockingly low. This bid is 20% lower than the previous record bid of 2.91¢/kWh submitted at an auction in Chile last month.

The second-lowest bid in the Abu Dhabi tender was reportedly not much higher, at 2.53¢/kWh, and was submitted by a local firm. These bids also beat the 2.99¢/kWh bid (shocking at the time … and still to some extent) submitted by a Masdar-led consortium for an 800 MW solar PV project in Dubai.

The Abu Dhabi solar park was initially planned for 350 MW. However, media reports state a possible increase in project size, as bidders were allowed to bid for larger capacities. The final capacity of the solar power park may well increase to 1 GW.

In recent months, large solar power parks around the globe have received bids less than 4.00¢/kWh — in India, Chile, the UAE, and elsewhere.

Many large developers — including Italy’s Enel, TSK, ACWA, Abdul Latif Jameel, and Engie reportedly pulled out of the Abu Dhabi tender due to expected high competition and concern over a drastic drop in prices.

[sumdumguy]

The proof is in the pudding.

[SASKFARMER3]

But Ontario and California are doing so well going balls to the wall ha ha

Germany has other problems beside clean energy. One question how come when Canadians go visit relatives in Germany they are hunkered down under blankets to sit and watch tv. Just saying why not turn up the thermostat. Oh can't out bill would be idiotic. So sitting under blankets isn't.

Really chuck it's billshit just admit it

[Hamloc]

Where in your long cut and paste do you answer in relation to Canada, nowhere!!!