Shake my head

[vvalk]

Let me know if I'm wrong here or if this has been talked about and I missed it but I posted a thread on "federal budget". In that thread I posted a paragraph out of the federal budget. Here it is again: "The income tax rules provide a deferral in respect of deferred cash purchase tickets issued for deliveries of certain listed grains. Given changes in the grain marketing regime in Canada, the Government is conducting a public consultation regarding the ongoing utility of this income tax deferral."
There was 3 comments on it I think. I start to wonder how many actual farmers are on this site when something like this which would fundamentally change how we run our farms is completely ignored for trival thread topics Though charging pst on crop and hail insurance is brutal

[bgmb]

Let me know if I'm wrong here or if this has been talked about and I missed it but I posted a thread on "federal budget". In that thread I posted a paragraph out of the federal budget. Here it is again: "The income tax rules provide a deferral in respect of deferred cash purchase tickets issued for deliveries of certain listed grains. Given changes in the grain marketing regime in Canada, the Government is conducting a public consultation regarding the ongoing utility of this income tax deferral."
There was 3 comments on it I think. I start to wonder how many actual farmers are on this site when something like this which would fundamentally change how we run our farms is completely ignored for trival thread topics Though charging pst on crop and hail insurance is brutal

So basically they are looking at ending cash accounting for farmers? that could be a problem

[Daylate]

What has changed in the grain handling regime. No CWB? As far as timely delivery of grain, I'd say we are still where we were 50 years ago. Never really know when we'll be getting rid of our grain regardless of what contracts say.
Eventually the government gets its money anyways. Starting to defer and prepay can get to be an ugly confusing monster, especially if it goes over a few years and then you pay anyways. And pay lots.

[Hamloc]

There are certainly times when delivery opportunities exist in the October to December time frame to ship new crop and I defer cheques until the following year. If I was not incorporated eliminating this option would be very costly. Obviously the government thinks they can increase revenue by doing this or it wouldn't be being considered. Governments are very hungry for revenue to continue their wasteful ways.

[Oliver88]

Solid point vvalk, this will end cash based accounting and push people towards partnerships/corporations if not already.

Hopefully producer groups lobby the government to not make this change.

If your prior discussion wasn't "hacked" by a nut job selling fake passports it likely would of had more comments.

[sumdumguy]

Surely Admin will axe that guy, good grief!

[farmaholic]

I put in my two cents.....oh wait a minute, pennies are longer relevent and we are rounding up and down the nearest five cent increment. Therefore, since two cents gets rounded down....that makes my "opinion" worthless.

[jake550]

I don't think many on here understand how serious that is honestly.

I feel like puking just thinking about that.

I thought the provincial budget was a huge kick (which it is) and then saw that same paragraph you're referring to in the federal budget.
Absolutely disgusted.

[blackpowder]

This damn site. On android phone lost post as submitting.

Anyway vvalk...
More in shock I guess.
Personally havent deffered in years. BUT. in 02 wow.
Cashed ins check. Bought cattle and 2 years fert to resell in 90 days. Otherwise tax bill woulda went straight to term debt. Jesus my line 150 same year before and after. Are they after fisherman too?
Primary ag so different than retail. Wild swings in inventory # and value. Would leave a beancounters nuts in his throat. Pure accrual eventually kill all but the largest??
Even if tax year same as production cycle year. Ouch. Crushing bill one year rebate the next? Right.
Reminds me of 2 storys.
Prov govt employee informed me last year that "you farmers have gotten away with too much far too long"
Last lawyer to forensic my books for support tore off his finger nails digging thru all books.
"Everyone knows you farmers' Income as recorded on tax forms meaningless".
Only the *** beginning.
#getusedtoit!



Or maybe join wcwga. Only email i got referring to it.

[farmaholic]

Here is my post "copy and pasted" from vvalk's previous thread...

Quote Originally Posted by farmaholic

How many people here use the tools listed in the next sentence as a way to manage their farm's economic stability..... Inventory adjustments, deferrals and prebuying expenses and such are a way of calming the seas.... not only avoiding paying income tax. It can help even out the boom and bust cycles of farming.

I hope those guys remember farming is quite a unique business in many ways.


Additional comments...

Take away the tools I use to stabilize my income and support me with gutted Agstability, reduced AgInvest and disaster assistance relief! We(here) are strong enough financially to self insure to a degree. They should take their ****ing hands out of my pocket somewhat not dig them further in! ****ing greedy hypocrites. Besides, we are supporting enough people already with the wealth we create and distribute for this country!

[iceman]

Farmaholic,

To my knowledge Agristability works off accrual income. They also set the prices of the inventory. Ie if you sell into a premium market it doesn't make a difference to your reference margin. #1 canola is #1 canola price set by them.

Tax is tax and it all gets paid whether you live to pay it or not. Maybe they would capture more tax on record years. A farmer could also just underestimate the value of his inventory at year end which would have the same outcome as deferring a portion of his crop.

Maybe I'm wrong on this & if I am it would be the first time ever
Iceman Out

Also let's not fool are selves agriInvest will be scrapped. Way to much money sitting idle in those accounts national for them to keep adding.

[farmaholic]

Accrual based tax filing sounds like reconciling nightmare. Inventory adjustmemts. What's the value of the inventory at the fiscal year end? What was the actual cash value of the sales of that inventory when they were made. Canary seed and yellow mustard squirrelled away for cyclical market peaks. Losses due to spoilage. Grade changes. Pre-buys because of early bargains out of the calculations. Maybe they should also tax the difference in value, or increase in value, of year end prebuy fertilizer versus spring(in-season gouging)buy fert. Accounts payable...accounts receivable. Ad nauseum.....

[vvalk]

Let me know if I'm wrong here or if this has been talked about and I missed it but I posted a thread on "federal budget". In that thread I posted a paragraph out of the federal budget. Here it is again: "The income tax rules provide a deferral in respect of deferred cash purchase tickets issued for deliveries of certain listed grains. Given changes in the grain marketing regime in Canada, the Government is conducting a public consultation regarding the ongoing utility of this income tax deferral."
There was 3 comments on it I think. I start to wonder how many actual farmers are on this site when something like this which would fundamentally change how we run our farms is completely ignored for trival thread topics Though charging pst on crop and hail insurance is brutal

Here is some more detail out of that budget. Quote
"
CONSULTATION ON CASH
PURCHASE TICKETS
When a farmer delivers a listed grain (i.e., wheat, oats, barley, rye, flaxseed,
****seed or canola) to the operator of a licensed elevator, the operator may
issue to the farmer a cash purchase ticket or other prescribed form of settlement. If
the cash pur
chase ticket (or other prescribed form of settlement) in respect of a
delivery of a listed grain is payable in the year following the year in which the grain
is delivered (a “deferred cash purchase ticket”), the taxpayer includes the amount
of the ticket i
n income in that following year. The treatment of deferred cash
purchase tickets that are issued in respect of deliveries of listed grains is a
departure from the general rule with respect to taxpayers (including other farmers)
who are required to include the amount of a security or other evidence of
indebtedness received as payment of a currently
-payable debt in income in the
year in which it is received.
The historical rationale for the tax deferral for cash purchase tickets in respect of
listed grains relates to international grain shipment agreements and the Canadian
Wheat Board’s former position as the sole purchaser of listed grain in Manitoba,
Saskatchewan and Alberta. With the deregulation of the grain marketing regime
and commercialization of the Canadian Wheat Board, the delivery of the listed
grains is now the responsibility of private business rather than the federal
government. As a result, there is arguably no longer a clear policy rationale for
maintaining the tax deferral accorded to deferred
cash purchase tickets received
as payment for listed grains.
Budget 2017 launches a consultation on the income tax deferral available in
respect of deferred cash purchase tickets for deliveries of listed grains.
Stakeholders are invited to provide comments on the ongoing utility, and potential
elimination, of this tax deferral, including any app
ropriate transitional period
or rules.
The Government invites interested parties to submit comments by
May 24, 2017.
Please send your comments to
consultation_tax_"

[vvalk]

Can't figure out what the CWB has to do with any of this. Shows to me they are going ahead with this no matter what the consultations say, they figure they have their scape goat

[mcfarms]

So what's next big tax fines for misreporting inventory levels to stats can? Or jail time for refusing to report ?
Vvalk what's the ability in the us of farmers to defer.? Has been a valuable tool for long term stability on farms if we are fored to give it up the 500000 amount needs to be moved at least to 750000 maybe higher with a inflationary rider on it .pretty tough anymore to try and pay minimum tax which they are trying to get us above on good years and buy anything in the way of land and machinery. Have got thoughts on how this may be dealt with to some portion but won't share as I am unsure without a discussion with my accountants.