Organic works

[Klause]

Klause

I have hit my narrow leaf hawksbeard with db858 plus 1.5 liters of glyphosate plus barricade in crop. ....it doesn't kill it....

When did you do it? What were the conditions? What pH and tds ppm is your water?


There's a lot to chemistries and how they work... They will function as designed if used as designed.

Once again talking about 4 grams... A teaspoon... Per acre. Doesn't take much to screw that up...


I'm not advocating summerfallowing and the use of no chemical I'm saying what many are doing today will eventually be looked down on much like we all look down on summer fallow and half cropping.

The comment about micros not doing anything... Well ergot is exacerbated by a copper defficiency in the soil. Add a bit of foiliar cu and presto ergot problems decrease massively.


There's a lot of international research now on the degradation of gluten, and rising incidence of disease in wheat and linking it to excessive use of nitrogen.

None of these studies get done in Canada.... Because our research departments are funded by chem and fert companies.


Just once try a 10 acre plot of canola with 50-100-100-50 for fert and see what it looks like. Meanwhile the canola council is studying high nitrogen protocols.

[bgmb]

Well the fact nh3 causes harm is common knowledge in many circles..

https://www.no-tillfarmer.com/blogs/1-covering-no-till/post/5012-should-you-quit-using-anhydrous-ammonia



Btw even the NCBI is now studying the use of and effects of humic and fulvic acids.


Right on... Triburon-methyl will kill narrow leaved hawksbeard... Dandelion... Suppress thistle kill volunteer canola etc etc at about 4 grams per acre.


Think about that. 4 grams. On an acre.

Yes many circles, amazing how some circles dismiss peer reviewed science. Klause nh3 and fungicides have given us over 90 field averages on cwrs. And we have been using nh3 for 30+ years. Fungicides and glyphos for 25-30 years

[hobbyfrmr]

I keep hearing about these successful organic farmers but have yet to see one.....
The blooming Canada thistle sure are pretty though!

I love the thistle argument. Last weekend I worked an outdoor event beside a conventional field of oats. The guy sprays the grass on his headlands, leaving no competition and the thistles thrive. The wind was the right direction, the half mile thistle fuzz blew into the crowd all day. It was so awesome, I laughed all day.

Look at your headlands, pasture, against the highway/ditches. Its awesome when my neighbors complain about thistles, then I take them for a drive and show them that row of thistles on their side of our properties because the they spray the grass. I should sue them for being stupid.
Once they see what they are doing on their own special pristine land, they shut the **** up real quick.

[Klause]

Yes many circles, amazing how some circles dismiss peer reviewed science. Klause nh3 and fungicides have given us over 90 field averages on cwrs. And we have been using nh3 for 30+ years. Fungicides and glyphos for 25-30 years

At what cost? Humanity has farmed for over 3000 years. And you're claiming your practices are the best they are can be and ever will be because they have been done for 30 years?

I'm sure the first farmers of the prairies thought half cropping plowing and summerfallowing where the be all end all practices too... And yet it changed.


To simply dismiss different ways of doing things is to eventually fail because the only constant in life is change


Again I'm not saying you need to do things "my" way or "differently"

[hobbyfrmr]

Incrop tillage is a thing for organic producers. Also a good healthy crop will compete heavily with weeds even before it canopys.

Maybe I've just been lucky for the past 15 years. My fields are cleaner then when I started, not completely weed free but they look better then some conventional fields with rr resistant wild oats, where you wonder if there is actually canola under the wild oat canopy.

I don't doubt there are poor organic growers out there half assing it, but to paint all organic producers with the same brush, is crazy. I take pride in my crops and my fields. They are not perfect, some lack OM, some have areas with prevalent weed issues, but I feel i am gaining ground using nutty, unscientific methods. My soil tests and yield data are helpful and reassuring.

I am sorry you had a poor experience with your neighbouring organic farmer(s).

Dont do it. Its not worth the risk and there is no money in it long term.

[LEP]

Sorry Hobby, you are annoyed by whistles along the edge of a field and most people here are commenting on whistles corner to corner.

Klaus, I have had several discussions with researchers at the U of S about innoculants. Yes they fix n but unfortunately most is used by the crop you are growing unless you plow it down.

[tweety]

Organic is a marketing term and has nothing to do with agronomy.

[pourfarmer]

Sorry Hobby, you are annoyed by whistles along the edge of a field and most people here are commenting on whistles corner to corner.

Klaus, I have had several discussions with researchers at the U of S about innoculants. Yes they fix n but unfortunately most is used by the crop you are growing unless you plow it down.

First of all, who can afford to keep farming when they're growing corner to corner thistles? Those kind of farmers usually get weeded out (pardon the pun) fairly promptly.

Secondly, In my area the "weedyist field" belongs to do a large farmer who can not quit growing roundup ready canola, the entire field is basically wild oats, roundup stunted them a bit, browned a few off but the ones that recovered came back with a vengeance, well 45 days later they set seed now they entire field is full of Roundup resistant wild oats setting seed for another go around. If it was mine, I'd have plowed it in early July and had a nice crop of inoculated peas to plow in this fall, between fert/chem/seed he has $xxx in the ground, so he will have to attempt a harvest. I hope the boys at the coffee shop let him have it, but they wont because he pays top dollar rent and has 4 or 5 new JD combines lined up ready to go.

RE: Inoculation, not sure what you mean by "most" of the N is used. A % is used, the exact % would depend on a lot variables though, to say most is used would be inaccurate.

[LEP]

Regarding n remaining the year after a pulse it was stated several times that it was negligible.

When a crop fixes 60lb of n and grows 30 bushels. There isn't a lot remaining. Don't take the total n fixed by a crop and think it is all available for the following year.

[hobbyfrmr]

Sorry Hobby, you are annoyed by whistles along the edge of a field and most people here are commenting on whistles corner to corner.

Klaus, I have had several discussions with researchers at the U of S about innoculants. Yes they fix n but unfortunately most is used by the crop you are growing unless you plow it down.

I am not annoyed, it is a shining example of how nature works. It is laughable at how conventional farms (myself included for 13 years) have for decades, sprated chemicals to control weeds/thistles and the best they can come up wth is blaming the neighbor because they dont want to admit that it happens on their very own property every year.
This is a perfect time of year. All you have to do is look at the ditches and headlands when you leave your farm and reach your destination. Highways, rail lines, grid roads, most farm headlands and fencelines.
Then there is the fact that conventional farmers are going to spray burn off then a couple times in crop. That is quite a luxury, yet they blame others for what they are doing.

[GDR]

[QUOTE=hobbyfrmr;353818]I love the thistle argument. Last weekend I worked an outdoor event beside a conventional field of oats. The guy sprays the grass on his headlands, leaving no competition and the thistles thrive. The wind was the right direction, the half mile thistle fuzz blew into the crowd all day. It was so awesome, I laughed all day.

Look at your headlands, pasture, against the highway/ditches. Its awesome when my neighbors complain about thistles, then I take them for a drive and show them that row of thistles on their side of our properties because the they spray the grass. I should sue them for being stupid.


That's why I bought my own sprayer. Custom guys kept hitting the headlands even if you told them not too. Every corner they back into the same. Those thistles go nuts where the grass is sprayed out.

[seabass]

Agree 100% Hobby. ****in custom operators or BTOs that gotta spray in the wind kill everything in the ditches. Terrible messes. Pisses me off. But the poor organic operators are just as bad. Dandelion fuzz everywhere dont help.

[hobbyfrmr]

[QUOTE=GDR;353851]

I love the thistle argument. Last weekend I worked an outdoor event beside a conventional field of oats. The guy sprays the grass on his headlands, leaving no competition and the thistles thrive. The wind was the right direction, the half mile thistle fuzz blew into the crowd all day. It was so awesome, I laughed all day.

Look at your headlands, pasture, against the highway/ditches. Its awesome when my neighbors complain about thistles, then I take them for a drive and show them that row of thistles on their side of our properties because the they spray the grass. I should sue them for being stupid.


That's why I bought my own sprayer. Custom guys kept hitting the headlands even if you told them not too. Every corner they back into the same. Those thistles go nuts where the grass is sprayed out.

Absolutely.
Then blame the organic guy.
I am always surprised at how many grown men that don't have independent thoughts.

[farmaholic]

I know exactly what you guys are talking about and we try not to kill grass where we aren't seeding! Highway/municipal ditches are a ****ing disgrace. We are considering loading up the sprayer with Curtail M and blasting the thistles (Canada, perennial and annual sow) in the ditch from the road...no crop damage anymore. Our fields are cleaner than the ditches and we aren't sloppy sprayers! Noxious weeds?

[Jay-mo]

I know exactly what your talking about spraying headlands. I have a neighbor that is a top notch farmer in most aspects but too often sprays out half the ditches every single time and drifts me with Liberty at least once a year. I dont think he knows of a world where flat fan spray tips don't exist.
One thing I try to do when spraying roundup or liberty is be extra careful on the edges. On the flip side, when spraying cereals I make sure to have the fence row tip on and spray a couple feet into the headlands to keep any non grassy weeds at bay.
However, you guys saying organic guys are not to blame for spreading weed seeds have not seen my organic neighbor. Thistles, corner to corner preceded by a brilliant yellow bloom of canol..cough..gmo...wild mustard.