Marketing organic/sustainable products

[jamesb]

The "Pesticide Free Production" or PFP system was used by a few guys in my area years ago. http://umanitoba.ca/outreach/naturalagriculture/articles/pfpguide.html
Guys were picking clean fields and going a year with no incrop chemicals. There was a ready market but the thing that killed PFP was the full organic guys themselves. They saw the PFP guys as stealing or undercutting their market (rightly or wrongly). I would have thought that the organic guys would welcome more convention farmers reducing chemical use but because it wasn't full organic or transition cropping it was rejected. Sad really

[AlbertaFarmer5]

90 replies to the bash organics thread, constant threads about the evil input suppliers and their grand conspiracy to keep us buying more and more, even more posts about low commodity prices, yet only 12 replies to a thread offering a potential solution. So evidently, no on is interested. Does that mean that we only want to vent our frustrations and blame someone else, not look for solutions?

From the agronomics perspective. I can see growing a crop with no in crop chemicals being viable here at least. I can also see not allowing chemicals past a certain stage, such that there could never be residues. Or take it further, and keep the organic rules, but allow exceptions to encourage no-till. Namely, the ability to kill a cover crop with chemicals, with a long list of criteria which must be met first.

[pourfarmer]

I started to read the post, but then came this part:

"But, the market has no mechanism to reward Klause for doing the right thing, unless he goes full organic. It does however have a very strong incentive to go full organic and perform summerfallow in the desert, and other less than sustainable practices."

Talk about ignorant, since when has COR ever preached summerfallow, especially in the desert? Or any other "less than sustainable" practices. Fertility/Weed management is left up the operator, he/she may decide to summerfallow, or decide to do a green manure plowdown. He/she may decide to do neither, and continuous crop until the thistles take over and they are forced to sell to FJLIP

If you want to harp on the down falls of organic production at least learn about it first.

[AlbertaFarmer5]

Pourfarmer, In reading your posts elsewhere, it sounds like you are one of the many responsible, progressive organic farmers who ARE doing the right things for the right reasons. As such, I would really appreciate knowing your opinion on my original post, if you would be willing to read it in it's entirety.

I've done a lot of research, read as much material I can get from COG, and their library, bought many other books on organic and sustainable/ regenerative agriculture. Read the Organic regulations, spoke at length with the certifying personnel, attended an organic conference, spoken to and visited with many organic producers. All because I am very serious about wanting to do it myself, and have one year of transition on some land already underway.

Every book I've read about organic farming has the same message, reduced tillage, or no-till should be the goal, and is the best thing for the soil, and long term productivity, same message as in conventional agriculture. Yet the seemingly arbitrary organic regulations disallow the very tools which have allowed conventional producers to eliminate tillage on a continuous basis.

When I say that the market rewards summerfallow in the desert, I don't mean that COG is encouraging this, ( although crop insurance is), but that the purchasers of the organic products pay the same price for your sustainably produced product, as they do to the people using the same methods which caused the dust bowl in the 1930's. There is no premium paid to you to do all the right things, nor any penalty for for not. The products all get mixed together and presented to the consumer at the same price with no mention of the production practices.

My wife buys many organic products, and while most of them have a lot of green on their label and many declarations of what is not in them, I've yet to see one which proclaims itself to be "summerfallow free" or "tillage free".

I was at an organic farm in the heart of the driest area of the palliser triangle recently. They do 50/50 summerfallow on every acre, no plowdown, no cover crops, no manure, no outside sources of nutrients. If I were you, spending your time and money doing all those things, I would be quite upset that your product is worth the same as theirs, and all gets the same feel good green label, which is purchased by a consumer who is tricked into thinking he/she is doing the environmentally friendly thing by buying organic.

If you are aware of any producer who has been penalized for unsustainable practices, or of a premium paid for sustainable products, please let me know, I would be glad to be proven wrong.

[AlbertaFarmer5]

Does the public have an appetite (pardon the pun) for all GE(genetic engineered) crops that would supply/fix their own nitrogen, resist insects and diseases in lieu of lower pesticide and fertilizer use?

It was really a shame that the GMO's started out primarily with the herbicide resistance trait, rather than something that the average soccer mom could support, the public reaction could have been a complete non-issue, or they could have even embraced it.

This is where I think the organic industry is making a mistake in demonizing all GMO's. There is the potential for GMO's to do all that you list and possibly much more. If the devil himself, Monsanto creates a GMO wheat plant that is perennial, can fix nitrogen, scavenge P,K and S, break up compaction, resist all destructive insects and diseases, be highly allelopathic to weeds, cure cancer when eaten, contain all essential vitamins and minerals, and have nothing to do with round up, would organic still have to forbid it's production? It would be a marketing nightmare to accept it and have to backpedal for all the years they said all GMO's are killing us. And in a vicsious circle, there is no motivation to develop a GMO plant that would compliment organic farming systems, when GMO's are prohibited altogether, so we may never know what the potentials might have been.

[pourfarmer]

Pourfarmer, In reading your posts elsewhere, it sounds like you are one of the many responsible, progressive organic farmers who ARE doing the right things for the right reasons. As such, I would really appreciate knowing your opinion on my original post, if you would be willing to read it in it's entirety.

Thank you for the kind words, I am trying to do the best I can with the tools I am given under the organic regulations. I will re-read the post, and reply again this evening.

I've done a lot of research, read as much material I can get from COG, and their library, bought many other books on organic and sustainable/ regenerative agriculture. Read the Organic regulations, spoke at length with the certifying personnel, attended an organic conference, spoken to and visited with many organic producers. All because I am very serious about wanting to do it myself, and have one year of transition on some land already underway.

I am very happy to hear that, I apologise for implying you were uninformed. You've obviously done your homework if you've begun to transition some land.

Every book I've read about organic farming has the same message, reduced tillage, or no-till should be the goal, and is the best thing for the soil, and long term productivity, same message as in conventional agriculture. Yet the seemingly arbitrary organic regulations disallow the very tools which have allowed conventional producers to eliminate tillage on a continuous basis.

What tools are you referring to, herbicides? There is lots of great research and results of organic producers planting into crimped cover crops using zero till methods. It is not perfect, but seems to offer a solution to producers in dry areas where tillage is not a option.

When I say that the market rewards summerfallow in the desert, I don't mean that COG is encouraging this, ( although crop insurance is), but that the purchasers of the organic products pay the same price for your sustainably produced product, as they do to the people using the same methods which caused the dust bowl in the 1930's. There is no premium paid to you to do all the right things, nor any penalty for for not. The products all get mixed together and presented to the consumer at the same price with no mention of the production practices.

My wife buys many organic products, and while most of them have a lot of green on their label and many declarations of what is not in them, I've yet to see one which proclaims itself to be "summerfallow free" or "tillage free".

Im not sure how to reply. The market also rewards conventional producers who don't spray within guidelines, go off label and apply post harvest chem and harvest 3 days after (as per Klause's post). Or producers who grow 10 years of back to back to RR canola. Maybe the next "Dust Bowl disaster" will be a canola crop failure due some random mutated blight or bacteria and not related to tillage. (read: CLUB ROOT)

I was at an organic farm in the heart of the driest area of the palliser triangle recently. They do 50/50 summerfallow on every acre, no plowdown, no cover crops, no manure, no outside sources of nutrients. If I were you, spending your time and money doing all those things, I would be quite upset that your product is worth the same as theirs, and all gets the same feel good green label, which is purchased by a consumer who is tricked into thinking he/she is doing the environmentally friendly thing by buying organic.

Different areas require different production methods, some involve tillage, others don't. In my area (NE sask), zero till does not work. it doesn't work for conventional producers, it doesn't work for organic producers. Zero till may be the only "environmentally friendly" method of production in your area or the palliser triangle, but not in mine.

I shouldn't comment on the farm specifically since I know nothing about growing in a dry area. Maybe summer fallow is to conserve moisture ? Maybe it is there weed management? I dont know so I dont want condemn or praise the practice in that area.

I'm not upset, I am doing what works for me, in my area. I spend the extra time/money/fuel doing things that I think are beneficial. I enjoy trying new methods, and adapting to the changing environment. I am growing organically for myself and my family, not to get rich, Feed the Worldâ„¢, or compete with my neighbour.

If you are aware of any producer who has been penalized for unsustainable practices, or of a premium paid for sustainable products, please let me know, I would be glad to be proven wrong.

I've been told by inspectors there have been people who had their certification pulled due to continuous cropping wheat with no rotation. I've also seen things like "non-compliance" where the producer doesn't have a fertility plan in place, so he wont be able to get his cert's until its corrected. Some certification bodies are more strict then others, OCIA was one of the best (or worst depending on the farmer) for ensuring rotations were beneficial agronomy-wise and were actually followed by the producers.

[AlbertaFarmer5]

Pourfarmer, thanks for giving me a chance to justify my thoughts.

I too farm in an area where "no till won't work here". Heavy, wet clay that compacts into concrete. Yet at least two of us are making it work with excellent results, and a few unforeseen challenges, the latest being slugs.

Regarding the producer doing half summerfallow, I'm in no position to judge him either, living in a completely opposite climate. His justification is they can't afford to lose the moisture to grow a cover crop( even though the evidence i've seen suggests otherwise) And crop insurance won't allow them to grow certain crops on stubble, only on summerfallow. And that is the way it has always been done there. Yet his conventional neighbors are growing continuous crops, so it is possible.