Labor day

[sofa.king]

It's that time of year to celebrate the over paid underworked useless union workers that are helping destroy this country. Time to make canada great again starting with keeping jobs at home not overseas. Rant over back to harvest.

[perfecho]

wow...really...my world is made up of a number of business owners, as I was....not many of us are suffering much......and as I posted before, many business owners would shuffle business overseas to unprotected, abused foreign workers that made pennies a day....if it added to their bottom line....with no regard to "keeping Canada great!"
Yes, there are some union issues, but, IMHO, not as much problem as "Profit trumps ethics"....
I am now seeing a bit more regard from the "newer generation" who do value local, ethical investing and I like it.....
Go back to bed and try the other side....;-)

[sumdumguy]

wow...really...my world is made up of a number of business owners, as I was....not many of us are suffering much......and as I posted before, many business owners would shuffle business overseas to unprotected, abused foreign workers that made pennies a day....if it added to their bottom line....with no regard to "keeping Canada great!"
Yes, there are some union issues, but, IMHO, not as much problem as "Profit trumps ethics"....
I am now seeing a bit more regard from the "newer generation" who do value local, ethical investing and I like it.....
Go back to bed and try the other side....;-)

What is "ethical" investing?

[chuckChuck]

It's that time of year to celebrate the over paid underworked useless union workers that are helping destroy this country. Time to make canada great again starting with keeping jobs at home not overseas. Rant over back to harvest.

Give us a break with your one sided anti-union bullshit.

Do you live in a cave or do you not realize most large employers and industries are well organized in business associations "unions" and well connected to government and have a lot of influence when it comes to getting what they want through extensive lobbying?

Not to mention that unions have fought for protection of all workers rights and helped improve the working conditions and standard of living of all Canadians.

Or we could go back to the good ol days when you owed your soul to the company store and worked for **** all. Hey sounds like farming LOL

[perfecho]

Google ethical investing and "socially Responsible Investing" comes up....

In general, socially responsible investors encourage corporate practices that promote environmental stewardship, consumer protection, human rights, and diversity. Some avoid businesses involved in alcohol, tobacco, fast food, gambling, pornography, weapons, contraception/abortifacients/abortion, fossil fuel production or the military.[1] The areas of concern recognized by the SRI practitioners are sometimes summarized under the heading of ESG issues: environment, social justice, and corporate governance.

"Socially responsible investing" is one of several related concepts and approaches that influence and, in some cases govern, how asset managers invest portfolios.[2] The term "socially responsible investing" sometimes narrowly refers to practices that seek to avoid harm by screening companies included in an investment portfolio.[3] However, the term is also used more broadly to include more proactive practices such as impact investing, shareholder advocacy and community investing.[4] According to investor Amy Domini, shareholder advocacy and community investing are pillars of socially responsible investing, while doing only negative screening is inadequate.[5]

In my terms, investing that is socially and environmentally sustainable....where CEO's are concerned about the health and welfare of their employees and product...instead of making the most return regardless of true cost..

[Oliver88]

What is "ethical" investing?

Today it seems to be a buzz word that doesn't have substance but makes soccer moms feel like they are doing something good. (Or a bad investment fund at your local credit union)

[perfecho]

It has substance to some........but some may not understand......

[pgluca]

Give us a break with your one sided anti-union bullshit.

Do you live in a cave or do you not realize most large employers and industries are well organized in business associations "unions" and well connected to government and have a lot of influence when it comes to getting what they want through extensive lobbying?

Not to mention that unions have fought for protection of all workers rights and helped improve the working conditions and standard of living of all Canadians.

Or we could go back to the good ol days when you owed your soul to the company store and worked for **** all. Hey sounds like farming LOL

ChuckChuck, I notice you always take the contrary view and often you are at least partly right in your opposition to an extreme view. However I would really like to know how many Union jobs you have had and how much you have paid in dues. When I was young I worked for three companies who had Unions I was compelled to join. At the first one when an efficiency expert came in and said there were too many people for the amount of work being done, I was laid off because I had low seniority. The management called me in the office and begged me not to go get another job because they wanted me back and were hoping to encourage some of their "dead wood" to leave. The second job I recall a Union meeting where the head of the Union from a large city came and told us to ignore the companies request to work a little harder so our production would be in line with other plants in the industry. I went back to the farm for the cropping season. Everyone lost their job when the plant closed a year later. The third job I was at I was reprimanded by the shop steward for finishing hanging a door I had balanced on my foot after the break bell rang. I was to drop everything so I wouldn't make anyone look bad. At that job if you underperformed the shop steward was to do your job and if you only took about 40% longer you kept your job and of course he didn't hurry. The Union bosses used to come down once a month in their $200 suits (I was making $4.50/hr) and buy us beer with our own money and tell us how great the Union was.
To add some balance to this diatribe I admit some companies don't seem to realize happy employees are their biggest asset, but I am betting in environments where jobs are not extremely scarce, there is more abuse to the employer than the employees. The labour laws themselves are more than adequate.

[checking]

To follow up on farmolic, what has perfecho done lately to practice what he preaches? Just asking if it is more than lip service.

[farmaholic]

To follow up on farmolic, what has perfecho done lately to practice what he preaches? Just asking if it is more than lip service.

How did I make it into this thread/particular post? I never posted anything in this thread.

[grassfarmer]

How did I make it into this thread/particular post? I never posted anything in this thread.

Must be autocorrect again.

[chuckChuck]

ChuckChuck, I notice you always take the contrary view and often you are at least partly right in your opposition to an extreme view. However I would really like to know how many Union jobs you have had and how much you have paid in dues. When I was young I worked for three companies who had Unions I was compelled to join. At the first one when an efficiency expert came in and said there were too many people for the amount of work being done, I was laid off because I had low seniority. The management called me in the office and begged me not to go get another job because they wanted me back and were hoping to encourage some of their "dead wood" to leave. The second job I recall a Union meeting where the head of the Union from a large city came and told us to ignore the companies request to work a little harder so our production would be in line with other plants in the industry. I went back to the farm for the cropping season. Everyone lost their job when the plant closed a year later. The third job I was at I was reprimanded by the shop steward for finishing hanging a door I had balanced on my foot after the break bell rang. I was to drop everything so I wouldn't make anyone look bad. At that job if you underperformed the shop steward was to do your job and if you only took about 40% longer you kept your job and of course he didn't hurry. The Union bosses used to come down once a month in their $200 suits (I was making $4.50/hr) and buy us beer with our own money and tell us how great the Union was.
To add some balance to this diatribe I admit some companies don't seem to realize happy employees are their biggest asset, but I am betting in environments where jobs are not extremely scarce, there is more abuse to the employer than the employees. The labour laws themselves are more than adequate.

I have been a farmer all my life except for a few short term jobs that were not unionized. I am sure there are examples where union rules are creating problems. But to suggest that unions are the problem is stupid.

In an employer employee relationship unions help balance the power of the employer. There are lots of examples of employers who mistreat and abuse employees.

Right here in Saskatchewan coal miners went on strike in Bienfait near Estevan over poor and dangerous working conditions in the 1920s and pay cuts in 1931. The miners wanted to Unionize and marched to Estevan where 3 miners were shot by police. If you look at the history of Coal mining you will see why unions were necessary. Estevan still has lots of Union jobs because of Sask Power and local coal mining.

In another example in the US I heard of a case where a non-unionized employer laid off a person because their spouse became seriously ill and the employer did not want pay the high health insurance premiums that would have covered the spouse. That is the kind of bullshit that employers will pull in non-unionized work.

As someone else said happy well cared for employees are an asset.

[chuckChuck]

Estevan Coal Strike
Funeral for three miners killed during the Estevan Coal Miners’ Strike, 1931.
Saskatchewan Archives Board R-A18508

In the summer of 1931, 600 men and boys worked in the almost two dozen underground mines of the Souris coal Fields of southeastern Saskatchewan. They laboured ten hours a day in subterranean Coal seams sometimes not big enough to allow a miner to stand up. In the Crescent Mine and Eastern Collieries, one to two feet of water routinely collected in the work areas. Western Dominion Collieries was notorious for not replacing damaged or rotted timbers, and roof cave-ins were frequent. Many of the underground mines had totally inadequate ventilation; smoke from blasting hung in the air like a fog. “Black damp”—high concentrations of carbon dioxide—plagued many of the mines and regularly made the workers seriously ill. “Refuge holes,” which offered miners some protection during a fire or cave-in, were few and far from the coal face.

For working in these harsh and dangerous conditions miners were paid 25¢ for each ton of coal that they dug, hand-loaded on coal cars and pushed to the main shaft. An experienced miner working hard for the whole of his ten-hour shift could earn $1.60. Dockage for rocks, clay and small-sized coal further reduced his take-home pay. Miners were also obliged to do extra work such as laying track, timbering, pumping water, and clearing up roof falls, for which they were not paid. Coal miners’ wages in Alberta and British Columbia exceeded those paid in Saskatchewan by 50% in the decade between 1921 and 1929. Despite this, the Estevan–Bienfait area mine owners implemented sizable wage cuts in 1931.

Living conditions were as bad as the work environment. Only two mines had shower facilities. The company houses and “bachelor bunkhouses” were tar paper shacks with no insulation or indoor plumbing; as often as not, these dwellings were infested with lice, bedbugs and cockroaches. The larger mines had “company stores” where employees were expected to buy everything from food and clothes to miners’ supplies.

In July and August 1931 miners from several collieries met in secret to talk about organizing. They decided to contact the Workers’ Unity League (WUL), a militant, left-wing Labour federation centred in Toronto. The WUL affiliate with jurisdiction over Mining was the Mine Workers’ Union of Canada (MWUC). The WUL sent organizers Martin Forkin and Sam Scarlett into the Souris Coal Fields, and a sign-up got underway.

Scarlett addressed a crowd of 1,200 miners and family members at a union picnic at Taylorton on August 23. Two days later, MWUC president James Sloan spoke to a meeting of over 1,000 in Estevan and announced that the union had obtained a 100% sign-up. The mine owners, however, absolutely refused to deal with their employees’ choice of union, citing as their reason the fact that the leaders of the MWUC were Communists. The MWUC had negotiated with coal operators in Alberta; but the Saskatchewan mine owners repeatedly refused to recognize the union, even when the Deputy Minister of Labour tried to get negotiations started. Finally, with no other real option, the miners voted to strike and walked off the job at midnight, September 7, 1931. The mine owners still refused to bargain, and instead brought in scabs (replacement workers) to reopen three of the biggest mines on September 16. Mass picketing by hundreds of striking miners sent the scabs away, and the mines once again closed.

On September 28, the strikers decided to hold a parade through coal country from Bienfait to Estevan to dramatize the miners’ plight and encourage public support. In the early afternoon of September 29, the motorcade set off with miners, their wives and Children, all packed into old cars and on the backs of trucks. As the cavalcade entered Estevan, they unfurled Union Jack flags and banners reading “We will not work for starvation wages,” “We want houses, not piano boxes,” and “Down with the company store.” Before the motorcade reached the centre of town it was stopped by a cordon of two dozen Estevan police. An argument erupted when the police insisted that the peaceful demonstration must disperse. When the strikers refused, police chief McCutcheon grabbed striking miner Martin Day and tried to pull him down from the truck. This set off a pushing and shoving match, during which the police summoned the fire brigade, apparently to hose down the demonstrators. When the fire truck arrived, McCutcheon began ordering arrests and the struggle escalated. Strikers and their family members began throwing stones and wielding picket signs. The police, bolstered now by RCMP officers, began firing their guns in the air or into the ground in front of the demonstrators.

A group of strikers climbed on the fire truck, and one was shot dead by the police. Two other miners were killed by police bullets. Eight more unarmed strikers, four bystanders, and one RCMP officer were wounded by police gunfire. Those fatally wounded were Peter Markunas, Nick Nargan and Julian Gryshko. The following morning, police raids on homes led to the arrest of thirteen strikers on charges of rioting; others were apprehended later. A number, including several of the leaders of the union, were convicted and sentenced to as much as a year of hard labour.

Even with the death of three co-workers, the miners refused to give in. On October 6, the mine owners finally agreed to implement an eight-hour day, a minimum wage of $4 a day, payment for timbering, a reduction in the rent for miners’ houses and the price of blasting powder, the appointment of check weighmen, and an end to the company store monopoly. Because of the employers’ stiff opposition towards the Mine Workers Union of Canada, the miners dropped their demand for union recognition. It was not until the end of World War II that the United Mine Workers were able to establish a lasting trade union presence in the Souris Coal Fields.

Garnet Dishaw

[furrowtickler]

Up chuck is back .....

[pgluca]

Up chuck is back .....

ChuckChuck, You appear to be very good at ancient history. Can you quote the labour laws back then. The examples from my personal experience are from the 70's. The point I was making is that Union jobs protect a terrific number of unproductive, unmotivated employees and the employer is very limited in what they can do about it, except raise costs or go off shore. There is not just one villain in this.