Finally....

[furrowtickler]

Grass, nope not at all .
The point is people have no clue how much money is spent to get that $200,000
The wage earner spends nothing .
Help those who stimulate the economy... the wealth creators not the the money exchangers .
$1,000,000 is not a big number any more on farms .
That's just a 5000ac farm at $200 / ac
A lot of farms are much bigger and spend more . All that goes into the economy, all year long .

[sumdumguy]

Yeah, but it doesn't occur to you that the input suppliers pay tax on the profits they make? You seriously think you should pay less tax on the profit you made because you spent money on inputs.




It was all there in Jan's OP ED Farma. Maybe your accountant read it too.

The Government is looking at three specific type of tax evasion:
Income sprinkling (when corporations pay dividends to family members who do not contribute to the business, for the sole purpose of avoiding taxes).

Passive investment (when a wealthy person uses their private corporation to make investments in mutual funds, stock markets, bonds, etc. instead of investing under their own name, allowing them to pay less tax and increase their private fortune faster).

Converting income into capital gains (setting up shell companies and using the corporation’s income to buy and sell shares in these companies, resulting in profits being counted as capital gains from these transactions instead of income from their corporation, and thus taxed at a lower rate).

When you say "increase their private fortune faster", just remember up to 54% of that fortune is taxed again and actually is the fortune of the government.

[sofa.king]

Did Omar khadir pay tax on his 10.5 million?

[grassfarmer]

Grass, nope not at all .
The point is people have no clue how much money is spent to get that $200,000
The wage earner spends nothing .
Help those who stimulate the economy... the wealth creators not the the money exchangers .
$1,000,000 is not a big number any more on farms .
That's just a 5000ac farm at $200 / ac
A lot of farms are much bigger and spend more . All that goes into the economy, all year long .

When has there ever been a tax system based on turnover versus net profit? What a ridiculous idea. Besides the way I see most of your farming operations you really are just becoming money exchangers. Taking the banks (or Input Credit's) money passing that onto seed, fuel, fertiliser and machinery companies before collecting some back from the big grain Co's and handing it back to the banks/lenders. Having an operation focussed on harnessing solar power, water and soil nutrients through forage harvested by animals and turned into protein really is wealth creation.

[grassfarmer]

Did Omar khadir pay tax on his 10.5 million?

Nope, apparently legal settlements are not subject to tax.

[Richard5]

Yes, my point being that retained earning in a corp is money that has already had the tax paid on and when that money is pulled out of the company it will be taxed for a 2nd time at what ever your personal tax rate is.

Sodbuster, you are not totally correct with your statement.

Unless you have a really bad accountant, when your remove the cash from a company you will pay personal taxes on this, but it is a lesser rate than other normal earnings (Dividends).

[Jagfarms]

Just need to point something out here ...
Say the farmer makes $200,000 as said , he most likely spent over $1,000,000 on total inputs into the local economy...
The wage earner spends zero to earn his $200,000 relative to the farmer .
Most people forget that little tid bit of info or completely ignore it .
Also that farmer can make zero the next year and still have to spend $1,000,000 on total inputs into the local economy supporting many many jobs while he is called a whiner if he says anything at all by the likes of grassfarmer , or the wage earner who still gets his $200,000 without having to spend a dime to earn that other than fuel to get to work and back .

Well said furrowtickler

[blackpowder]

Grass did say 200k net after wages. Ya sure tax at a reasonable rate.
What I see increasingly is this. At one time someone who was doing well from their own initiative was admired or given credit.
Now they are looked on with envy or as crooks not deserving of more than anybody else.
That is a shift that can only lead to inevitable decay. Key words in some addresses including the NFUs' point to this shift.
Loopholes if any, are one thing. Forcing "equality" another.

[burnt]

Grass did say 200k net after wages. Ya sure tax at a reasonable rate.
What I see increasingly is this. At one time someone who was doing well from their own initiative was admired or given credit.
Now they are looked on with envy or as crooks not deserving of more than anybody else.
That is a shift that can only lead to inevitable decay. Key words in some addresses including the NFUs' point to this shift.
Loopholes if any, are one thing. Forcing "equality" another.

If we listen to sock puppet's arguments for the tax grab, he is clearly trying to frame it as class warfare.

Draw your own conclusions.

[blackpowder]

Read an article I can no longer find. Morneaus' company stands to make a killing with some pension products with the changes?


Whatever buys votes right?

[jethro456]

Do pension funds pay tax?
If they do, the increased taxes on renting land would cost them a bundle.

[tweety]

What's wrong with passive iincome? You don't want any business owner thinking outside then box to create more wealth and therefore more taxes and what's really important more jobs? Just because that income is outside the primary reason for the business, who cares? Tweety you think farmers should only farm and not look to try new ideas or ventures?

Everyone cares, and you're about to find out exactly how much soon.

But that isn't what the corp is for. Its for primary business dealings, and to be taxed at corp rates to grow that business. Not generate income from outside investments and tax shelter them that have nothing to do with the primary business. Unfortunately.

The smart ones will figure out how to get around it. They always do.

[mcfarms]

Personally I suspect we will see some adjustments to the proposals following the "consultation " period but something wicked this way comes.. I spent the morning at a town hall meeting listening to MP Pierre Poilievre CPC finance critic he had some interesting insight into this . Came away feeling about the same as I went in not great.
I was impressed by his knowledge and ability to answer the questions posed to him on the subject. He managed to quickly set aside the political questions and focus on the tax changes as proposed. No question after hearing him I have to think it has alot more to do with paying for a social agenda than it does with fairness. He had some comments that the passive income thing is actually worth more gov't rev. over the long term but the libs want that tax rev. now to help defray some of this spending. sprinkling isn't the key part of this move it is the passive thing that could generate them the most.
Frankly think alot of this isnt targeted at us in the ag business but we are going to get swept up in the big net like a dolphin on a tuna boat unless things get adjusted.
Also don't think Bill Morneau has a bloody clue about what a incorporated family farm looks like after hearing some of his comments over the past week he keeps saying these changes wont affect the family farm.
As proposed they sure as hell will.

[Braveheart]

Is like to know who the ****head was that came up with this idea? Which prick civil servant said, "let's go after farmers, small business owners and the like"?

[LEP]

I think people are looking at this passive income thing wrong. So say a guy has a Napa franchise and is going to retire so he sells his business and inventory and keeps the building and rents it to the new business operator.

So he has any working capital from the business and sale proceeds from the sale of the business and the building in the company. So let's say he has run the business for 25 years and outside of a few rasps the sale proceeds are his retirement. His plan was to invest the money in the corp plus collect rent on the building and pay out dividends on an annual basis to live on for the next 25 or 30 years.

But because the Liberal Government can't keep the government spending in control want to tax him at 73% on any "passive income" because they want their money now. He is now in the position of taking a huge tax hit any way he turns.

This is the thing pissing business owners off to no end.