Finally....

[tweety]

So if you own 1000 acres in a corp, and rent for 70 an acre, after tax income of 20k. Minus land tax, about 15k. Corp filing fees, maintenance.......

Modest 300 an acre value, pretty bad return on 3 million dollar asset.

[Oliver88]

Read an article I can no longer find. Morneaus' company stands to make a killing with some pension products with the changes?


Whatever buys votes right?

This whole tax change is looking like a very big conflict of interest for Bill Morneau.

[grassfarmer]

On and on it goes, fear mongering based on made up facts and mis-contrived scenarios. They did not decide to "come after family farms and small businesses". 75% of farms will be totally unaffected by the proposed changes as they are not incorporated - likely only 5-10% of all farms will pay more tax as a result. Even if all 25% were affected it would only account for 2.4% of corporations affected on a national basis - this is not about targeting farmers.

"The proposed changes do not raise the very low 10.5 % tax rate on the first $500,000 of net income that currently applies to small businesses that are set up as private corporations." Source NFU.ca

So it isn't going to hit all the small Mom and Pop franchise businesses in town either.
Enough with making up stories

[zeefarmer]

Is like to know who the ****head was that came up with this idea? Which prick civil servant said, "let's go after farmers, small business owners and the like"?

The same one/ones that think it's ok to take taxpayers money and instead of investing it back into the country, throw it at Middle Eastern countries, the Clinton foundation, their own special interests, etc, etc.

[farmaholic]

So if you own 1000 acres in a corp, and rent for 70 an acre, after tax income of 20k. Minus land tax, about 15k. Corp filing fees, maintenance.......

Modest 300 an acre value, pretty bad return on 3 million dollar asset.

Is the math right? 1000 acres @ $300 value = $300,0000 asset. Am I misunderstanding this post. $300 an acre land? Where?

[Hamloc]

On and on it goes, fear mongering based on made up facts and mis-contrived scenarios. They did not decide to "come after family farms and small businesses". 75% of farms will be totally unaffected by the proposed changes as they are not incorporated - likely only 5-10% of all farms will pay more tax as a result. Even if all 25% were affected it would only account for 2.4% of corporations affected on a national basis - this is not about targeting farmers.

"The proposed changes do not raise the very low 10.5 % tax rate on the first $500,000 of net income that currently applies to small businesses that are set up as private corporations." Source NFU.ca

So it isn't going to hit all the small Mom and Pop franchise businesses in town either.
Enough with making up stories

In Jan Slomp's overview he said something to the effect of how our federal government prudently spends our money, on this he is totally wrong so imo why would any of the rest of his analysis be correct. He is coming at this from the same ideological slant as our Prime Minister.



If this was truly about revenue and not progressive class warfare why not raise the GST by 1%? This would bring in $5-6 billion in revenue instead of the $500 million the proposed changes to how corporations are taxed. The Liberals raised the highest personal rate by 4% soon after being elected and this increase actually decreased revenue so now they are on a witch hunt.

[LEP]

On and on it goes, fear mongering based on made up facts and mis-contrived scenarios. They did not decide to "come after family farms and small businesses". 75% of farms will be totally unaffected by the proposed changes as they are not incorporated - likely only 5-10% of all farms will pay more tax as a result. Even if all 25% were affected it would only account for 2.4% of corporations affected on a national basis - this is not about targeting farmers.

"The proposed changes do not raise the very low 10.5 % tax rate on the first $500,000 of net income that currently applies to small businesses that are set up as private corporations." Source NFU.ca

So it isn't going to hit all the small Mom and Pop franchise businesses in town either.
Enough with making up stories

Typical grassy maneuver. I don't think one of us have argued that the small business rate is being touched but you mention it because you have no defence on the other comments. My example of the Napa small business owner selling out is what people are upset about and they will be affected. Passive income is an issue for retired farmers and attribution rule changes will be an issue for succession planning. You obviously haven't talked to an accountant about this and continue to talk about something you know nothing about. There seems to be a trend there.

Oh and going to H and R block doesn't count as getting good tax advice.

[SASKFARMER3]

I phoned a Lawyer friend in Regina discussed moving assets bought a liberal membership and transferred a bunch of wealth to Cayman islands Today. I love that place any way.

You idiots like grass don't get it. He floated the farmer and DR thing first as a test to see how pissed people get then the inheritance tax will come in next budget because the idiot has spent so much were now close to Greece. So he needs cash and cash fast. Guess what the real rich have moved money out in huge amounts since this happened. Were well on our way to being F$%Ked as a country.

Idiots running the asylum

[blackpowder]

I wonder if Grass has ever had hypothermia. Tax changes like that.

[mcfarms]

Legge: Business can't give more

Adam Legge, for the Calgary Herald ADAM LEGGE, FOR THE CALGARY HERALD
Published on: September 23, 2017 | Last Updated: September 23, 2017 3:00 AM MDT

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Where did opinion on business go so wrong?

I lay awake at night these days, wondering how could we have gotten it so wrong.

Canada, according to the Edelman Trust Barometer, is a nation at the tipping point between trust and distrust of business. One more percentage point into distrust, and the majority of Canadians will be distrustful of business.

This is manifesting itself in many ways: public rhetoric toward businesses, government policy, and a disconnect between the great services Canadians want – schools, health care – and the economic activity that makes this possible.

How could we have got here?

There was a time when businesses were valued in society for the employment they create, the better quality of life for citizens, and for their contribution to innovation, taxes and the economy.

I recognize that there are high-profile media stories of businesses and leaders who are unethical. Business can and should do better than this. But the reality is those are the significant exceptions to the general rule that we have forgotten: that the vast majority of businesses are owned by our friends, families and neighbours and they make our cities, communities and lives better.

Business has become the target. The target of distrust. The target of cash grabs. The target of “I know a way to make up the budget shortfall.” We have to end this. Why? For two reasons; each one a side of the same coin.

The first side is that business cannot keep contributing. The federal government’s proposed tax changes to close “loopholes” of privately held companies in Canada brings about a draconian and blunt instrument approach that will devastate Canadian entrepreneurship and investment.

The feds espouse they want to protect the middle class – well, the measures they are proposing will significantly harm the middle class.

For while they may be business owners, the majority of entrepreneurs who these changes will affect would be classified as middle class. They don’t own yachts. Or Lamborghinis. Or houses in Bermuda.

They are incredibly hard-working Canadians, devoting seven days a week and 18-hour days to their business. They hire people. They create jobs. They help make our economy thrive. If we target them, companies will leave Canada. Jobs will be lost. Investment won’t come.

These tax hikes on small business will disincentivize new young entrepreneurs. They will penalize legitimate businesses and farmers. They will hurt families, like the risk-taker trying to get a new innovative energy company off the ground, and her wife taking care of every other area of the family to make that possible.

The federal government simply has this one all wrong.

But they are in good company. Our provincial government continues to saddle business with ever-increasing costs. As one cabinet minister told me once, “business can always give more.” Actually no. They can’t.

In Calgary, businesses have faced new cost drivers from every level of government recently, including federal and provincial. And, due to the loss of downtown property values, many businesses outside downtown have seen increased municipal property taxes – some as high as 200 per cent.

All of this adds up to what’s called the layered cost burden. In layman’s terms: the money that government wants from business has piled up to be so much that a good number have, or are considering, closing. Calgary is now seeing more shuttered businesses. I am learning of almost one a day.

Consider your favourite local fitness facility, restaurant, or a garment manufacturer. In the past two years, they have faced a carbon tax, that will go up by 50 per cent in January; minimum wages that increase again Oct. 1 – a total increase so far of 33 per cent over the course of a recession; increased property taxes, depending on their location. Now, they are likely staring down the barrel of new small business tax changes.

There are fashion designers, fitness entrepreneurs and restaurant owners who have eked by for the last two recessionary years, making no profit, even losing a bit of money, and when they look at the year ahead, and all the new costs they’ll face, the effort just doesn’t make sense anymore. That’s tragic.

About 90 per cent of businesses in Calgary are small businesses. They are locally owned. They have roots in the community. And they don’t make massive profits or be able to pass all cost increases on to the customer. They just can’t keep paying. There is no more to give.

So I have a message to every elected official from the entrepreneurs of Calgary: please stop going after business to find the money. It isn’t there. And every time you add a cost, someone loses a job. Or a dollar of potential investment flows out of the country. We cannot afford this.

The other side of the same coin is a truth that has been forgotten or dismissed for some time now, that needs to resurface. It is this: nearly everything we hold dear in our society – health care, education, parks, recreation, the arts – all of it exists because of a dollar of profit.

That dollar of profit can be taxed to provide public services and invest in our communities. That dollar of profit can be used to hire another person who will pay income tax, which goes toward government spending on our quality of life. That dollar of profit can be invested in the company to grow and create more jobs, locations and opportunities, and more profit that can be taxed. And so on, and so forth.

Profit and business have become dirty words these days. They don’t win votes. They are viewed with suspicion. I wish this weren’t the case, because we need business. We need profits.

The majority of Canadians wouldn’t have jobs if business and profit didn’t exist. We wouldn’t have our schools, our parks, our teachers and our nurses. Or the government employees who work hard every day to keep our streets safe and clean.

We forget that we have all that because of business and profit. If we don’t want to lose that, let’s view business and profit as essential parts of Canada and find ways to have them flourish in vibrant, ethical and sustainable ways.

Let’s create positive tax rules that foster investment and hiring, not curtail it. Let’s use thoughtful approaches versus blunt instruments. Let’s stop believing that business can always pay a little more.

We need to get back to being a country that supports and nurtures business, as one important part of a well-functioning society. In specific, the part that enables much of those things that we value and cherish as Canadians..

Adam Legge is the president of the Calgary Chamber of Commerce


I think his opinion I would value over the NFU , take a look at the bio of the NFU president . Remind you of anyone on here.
Been in canada 25 years brought all his ideals with him and wants to "educate" the dumb colonials on how it should be see hes not even farming anymore. ( starting a farm on Vancouver island now what ever that means)
Likely came here in search of opportunities he didnt have where he was but then wants to change things to be exactly how they were where he came from Brilliant thought process.

[Klause]

Having an operation focussed on harnessing solar power, water and soil nutrients through forage harvested by animals and turned into protein really is wealth creation.

I had to take a few days off of Agriville because there's all kinds of dumb (mis informed?) (Braindead?) Comments on here. And it's from all sides.


First of all. Read the effing proposals. Then comment. A lot of accountants have it right. A few are out to lunch.


Even with the NFU I know members who are pissed off with Jan writing that as the official stance because it's b/s and the western members know it.

The NFU is a great organization the way it's set up. It's not left or right it's a shell organised to be whatever it's members make it and it provides a form of decorum and resolution making that is truly fair and democratic.


The problem is it has been taken over by social justice warrior rooftop gardeners and mini greenhouse owners.

If we all as western Canadian farmers joined we could quickly change it's direction and make it work in our favor... Way better system of governance and far more open than the rest of our producer orgs that simply spend money to go on vacations and fancy dinner / distillery tours.

Having said that yes they are left as hell right now and completely out of touch with reality.


Jan is not an accountant a legal expert or anything like that. His op Ed is very much politically motivated and nothing else.


Now to the quote...


Yes let's convert grass into meat protein and methane gas. Meat that people are increasingly against and is the most inefficient protein. And you are still reporting basic nutrients that need to be replenished somehow...


How about pulses that produce sugars and N from thin air?


And don't know about you but I really like some bread or lentils or potatoes with my beef.


I do agree that some guys have become money cyclers... Especially this year where you ended up spending more on inputs than the crop is worth with the dryness.

[grassfarmer]

The feds espouse they want to protect the middle class – well, the measures they are proposing will significantly harm the middle class.

For while they may be business owners, the majority of entrepreneurs who these changes will affect would be classified as middle class.

Well that whole spiel is easy to consign to the garbage can.

2013 definition of Canadian middle class family income based on 2 partners working, single middle class workers would be earning approximately half these values.

The lower-middle class incomes range from $38,755 to $61,928.

The middle 20% incomes range from $61,929 to $88,074.

The upper-middle class incomes range from $88,075 to $125,009.

Totally out with the scope of the proposed changes to corporate taxation.


Well done, that was a very insightful post Klause, you actually seem to have an understanding of the NFU. All farmers are welcome to join the organisation and as you say if the majority consensus takes the organisation in a different direction over time that would be fine, we respect democracy.

[burnt]

mcfarms -This post wins the internet. It outlines perfectly how cultural Marxism has slowly caused our society to devolve from a wealth-building, industrious nation into a covetous, scrabbling bunch of slugs who think that they are entitled to a helping of another man's success.

Profitable businesses are seen as a cash cow for the public good; private property and rights are lambs to be sacrificed on the insatiable altar of socialist ideology.

Legge: Business can't give more

Adam Legge, for the Calgary Herald ADAM LEGGE, FOR THE CALGARY HERALD
Published on: September 23, 2017 | Last Updated: September 23, 2017 3:00 AM MDT

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Where did opinion on business go so wrong?

I lay awake at night these days, wondering how could we have gotten it so wrong.

Canada, according to the Edelman Trust Barometer, is a nation at the tipping point between trust and distrust of business. One more percentage point into distrust, and the majority of Canadians will be distrustful of business.

...

This is manifesting itself in many ways:
Likely came here in search of opportunities he didnt have where he was but then wants to change things to be exactly how they were where he came from Brilliant thought process.[ATTACH]2162[/ATTACH]

[tweety]

Is the math right? 1000 acres @ $300 value = $300,0000 asset. Am I misunderstanding this post. $300 an acre land? Where?

Math is right, numbers wrong, 3000 an acre. I did say modest, lol.

That aside, its going to change ag. Huge.

[Horse]

I phoned a Lawyer friend in Regina discussed moving assets bought a liberal membership and transferred a bunch of wealth to Cayman islands Today. I love that place any way.

You idiots like grass don't get it. He floated the farmer and DR thing first as a test to see how pissed people get then the inheritance tax will come in next budget because the idiot has spent so much were now close to Greece. So he needs cash and cash fast. Guess what the real rich have moved money out in huge amounts since this happened. Were well on our way to being F$%Ked as a country.

Idiots running the asylum

Now the truth is out the big dogs are running and trying to pickup some smaller with ones to make it look like everyone is scared. All that whining , how many here can move capital off shore????