Western Seperation not run by dummies

[Hamloc]

FJLIP your post says it all for us in Alberta!!!

[Guest]

How about we just stop doing that. They can collect welfare if they're too lazy to work like the rest of the lazy Canadians, or get an education and work hard like every Canadian has the opportunity to do.

Having no purpose in life and subsidizing it is the worst option of all

good idea, like, like

[Oliver88]

I for one have always despised the federal government's policies that are driven by Ontario and Quebec. What is interesting as much as I despise Quebec they are much smarter than us in the west. Quebec collects all its own taxes, has its own police force. They have set it up so that if they separate they are ready to go. In the west we let Ottawa control this. Am I fan of western separation, absolutely, do I think the west is ready? No. Why is it that every time a Trudeau is in power regional tensions approach a breaking point? Under Harper there wasn't talk of separation anywhere in Canada, under Justin Trudeau we are all pissed off. Just a thought.

Trudeau and Butts are clearly trying to drive wedges between rural/western vs urban/eastern. Carbon taxes and the anti-energy policies are proving this.

Another divisive tactic they are doing is trying to put unions, government workers, all 8-5 Mon - Fri workers vs farmers/small business/doctors/dentists. Trudeau is telling his base that the entrepreneur class is using "loopholes" to hide income.

Just like Pierre, junior/Butts/Morneau are using the same strategy to win over Quebec and Ontario voters and the grass/chuck/forage types who frequent Vancouver Starbucks locations.

[Klause]

Big Wheels

"Question for you and chuck and
Forage. Tell us your spin on how equalization is calculated? I want to know once and for all"

I'm not an expert on it, so I won't even go there. The thing that bothers me the most is you have guys like SK3 and Klaus always claiming there's somewhere better to live other than Canada, but yet they stay here and complain and bitch like couple of spoil children. You don't like Canada sell the farm and F OFF, plain and simple nobody is holding a gun to your head. Klaus moves as often as I change underwear anyways!!

Guys like those two will never be happy no matter where they live!

I'd really hope you've changed your underwear more than twice in 30 years.


And then there's people like you who have a hate on for immigrants never been anywhere else and don't know what things are like in the rest of the world...


Sitting in a little bubble while the world passes you by.


Do you think Canada is the only place in the world with a healthcare system?


When my wife gives birth to our first child... We will be traveling close to two hours down SK's most dangerous highway in mid December... Driving right by a brand new taxpayer built hospital that isn't equipped for routine childbirth.

Yay our healthcare system is awesome!!!


As far as economics of ag they are in the shitter right now everywhere... $10/but lentils x 15 bpa doesn't make sense on 4000 an acre sask land either.


One thing a French friend of mine brought up... There's extremely large( inefficient) corporate farm's in the FSU, in Brazil, in Argentina, in Uruguay the USA... But they don't work in Canada.... That's saying something.

[the big wheel]

Klause why is that road that shitty and why is that health facility that shitty there certainly was record revenues here?

Danny that's bull if Quebec s income not all figured in. Why didn't Harper and wall do something about that they had majorities?

It would be interesting to know where that money originates. Ie how much comes from agriculture how much from oil etc etc and what years those totals come from.

Also since most or many companies are foreign owned in Canada if that money wasn't taken would it just leave the country? That doesn't justify it all going to Quebec but better that it stays here.

When Quebec gets all this equalization is it just a blank cheque to spend as they wish or is it in health care welfare dairy subsidies etc? Which reminds me do thy still have a much better agristability program?

As a premier you must know how much money is going out through equalization and if money is going out you must have record revenue so how can you not budget this properly? Easy to run around after like a fool and blame it on these numbers. But it's not like farming where a hail storm or frost can change your income to a loss in one day. You know all these numbers all the time.

[Klause]

Klause why is that road that shitty and why is that health facility that shitty there certainly was record revenues here?

Danny that's bull if Quebec s income not all figured in. Why didn't Harper and wall do something about that they had majorities?

It would be interesting to know where that money originates. Ie how much comes from agriculture how much from oil etc etc and what years those totals come from.

Also since most or many companies are foreign owned in Canada if that money wasn't taken would it just leave the country? That doesn't justify it all going to Quebec but better that it stays here.

When Quebec gets all this equalization is it just a blank cheque to spend as they wish or is it in health care welfare dairy subsidies etc? Which reminds me do thy still have a much better agristability program?

As a premier you must know how much money is going out through equalization and if money is going out you must have record revenue so how can you not budget this properly? Easy to run around after like a fool and blame it on these numbers. But it's not like farming where a hail storm or frost can change your income to a loss in one day. You know all these numbers all the time.

You tell me... I did state I'm not a fan of Wall.

Why build an expensive (the design is neat) hospital but then only staff it to be a geriatric facility... From what I've heard and read thats been going on in Sask under both parties for a very long time. You want you people here to live and work but you don't want to provide services they need... Just services for the elderly... We need to support seniors don't get me wrong... But if you want young workers maybe support them too. Thankfully were finally Etting a children's hospital... And some more schools.

#5 is one of the busiest highways in the province. No shoulders steep drops off the sides and steep blind hills where a superB is down to 70. somebody dies every couple of weeks. We usually take grids to Saskatoon by car. The highway isn't safe... They are adding passing lanes to half of it... With steep drops off the ends of the passing lanes.... Not sure that will help much but it's something. Meanwhile they did finally twin #16 past Clavet (yay! - my wife was just about killed going to her parents place 6 years ago getting rear ended turning left) but thru poor planning created a new death trap going into the Cargil facilities at Clavet.


As far as equalization goes... These are quotes from Wikipedia.
[URL="https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equalization_payments_in_Canada"]https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equalization_payments_in_Canada[/URL]

Equalization payments are based on a formula that calculates the difference between the per capita revenue yield that a particular province would obtain using average tax rates and the national average per capita revenue yield at average tax rates. The current formula considers five major revenue sources (see below). The objective of the program is to ensure that all provinces have access to per capita revenues equal to the potential average of all ten provinces. The formula is based solely on revenues and does not consider the cost of providing services or the expenditure need of the provinces.

Equalization payments happen via the federal treasury. As an example, a wealthy citizen in New Brunswick, a so-called "have not" province, pays more into equalization than a poorer citizen in Alberta, a so-called "have" province. However, because of Alberta's greater wealth, the citizens of Alberta as a whole are net contributors to Equalization, while the citizens of New Brunswick are net receivers of Equalization payments.

Equalization payments are one example of what are often collectively referred to in Canada as "transfer payments", a term used in other jurisdictions to refer to cash payments to individuals (see Canadian transfer payments). The money the provinces receive through equalization can be spent in any way the provincial government desires. The payments help guarantee "reasonably comparable levels" of health care, education, and welfare in all the provinces. The definition of "reasonably comparable levels", however, has been the subject of considerable debate.

In 2017-2018, the total amount of the program was roughly 18.3 billion Canadian dollars.

Recent negotiations surrounding the renewal of the program have created considerable tension among provinces. Due to the zero-sum nature of the formula, increases in entitlements for some provinces necessarily lead to decreases for others.

The fiscal capacity of the provinces is determined by measuring their revenue from five general sources. Those revenue categories are:

Personal income taxes
Business income taxes
Consumption taxes
Up to 50 percent of natural resource revenue (see below)
Property taxes and miscellaneous
Note: According to the Department of Finance, "provinces get the greater of the amount they would receive by fully excluding natural resource revenues, or by excluding 50% of natural resource revenues."[1]

[Rareearth]

One thing a French friend of mine brought up... There's extremely large( inefficient) corporate farm's in the FSU, in Brazil, in Argentina, in Uruguay the USA... But they don't work in Canada.... That's saying something.

That’s interesting, and I believe true as well, can you comment further Klause.

Is it due to our banking system, limited corruption opportunities, costs for everything-( land, inputs, Freight,taxation, equipment, labour, total cost of production .). I think there are many reasonsCanada is among the best and worst in many of these areas.

[foragefarmer]

Klaus

"And then there's people like you who have a hate on for immigrants never been anywhere else and don't know what things are like in the rest of the world..."


Could care less if your an immigrant or not, if you stopped to think for a minute you'd realize that here in Canada we're all immigrants. Besides did any of my post ever mention anything about being against immigration, there are none. So quit making up bullshit and playing the pity card, that's really weak.

As for never being anywhere, how the hell would you know where I've been. I'll tell you this much I've been to Europe twice. Just because I don't come on Agriville and brag like you and Sk3 doesn't mean I don't travel. In fact it's my travelling that has made me more appreciative of living in Canada.

So again if your friend is telling you there's a better place for you to live, go for it, move to your next utopia. I'm sure you'll start complaining there as well!!!

[Klause]

One thing a French friend of mine brought up... There's extremely large( inefficient) corporate farm's in the FSU, in Brazil, in Argentina, in Uruguay the USA... But they don't work in Canada.... That's saying something.

That’s interesting, and I believe true as well, can you comment further Klause.

Is it due to our banking system, limited corruption opportunities, costs for everything-( land, inputs, Freight,taxation, equipment, labour, total cost of production .). I think there are many reasonsCanada is among the best and worst in many of these areas.

Having family that farm's there and us doing it here...


Inputs are way higher here. Distance from world markets and infrastructure to get our Goods there. Weather. Shortest growing season on Earth pretty much. A lot less stress with a 210 day season. Need less equipment and less manpower. I should discuss this more with Francis and report back.

[Klause]

Klaus

"And then there's people like you who have a hate on for immigrants never been anywhere else and don't know what things are like in the rest of the world..."


Could care less if your an immigrant or not, if you stopped to think for a minute you'd realize that here in Canada we're all immigrants. Besides did any of my post ever mention anything about being against immigration, there are none. So quit making up bullshit and playing the pity card, that's really weak.

As for never being anywhere, how the hell would you know where I've been. I'll tell you this much I've been to Europe twice. Just because I don't come on Agriville and brag like you and Sk3 doesn't mean I don't travel. In fact it's my travelling that has made me more appreciative of living in Canada.

So again if your friend is telling you there's a better place for you to live, go for it, move to your next utopia. I'm sure you'll start complaining there as well!!!

Actually you're the one who keeps bringing up that I wasn't born here...

So according to you everything is perfect here... That's great!

Then there's nothing to see in these threads, move along

[Rareearth]

The shortest growing season, we live with it every year, the lack of cropping options and “excessive equipment and labour” makes a lot of sense, compared to other growing regions. It’s a bigger disadvantage than most would believe, plus the cost per unit produced. We better grow good stuff at premiums.

It will be interesting as Fed government sucks the life out of agriculture through taxation and lack of infrastructure development.
- What crops we can’t afford to grow anymore
- how fast, and how big Farms grow trying to generate cash flow
- export infrastructure, special crops, organic, protein extraction, alfalfa, honey, concrete terminals, port loading, cattle
- will the only opportunity be to sell domestic and USA, ? Only because we are close and nice and if Trump doesn’t put tariff on imports?


I’m not all doom and gloom. Just good to know the opportunities and risks.

[westernvicki]

Equal?

[ATTACH]2204[/ATTACH]

The formula was fixed from day one to exclude benefits from Quebec Hydro. As for avoidance of tax with the underground economy this has never been an issue, because no one in Federal politics would risk challenging this, however having this as part of the formula may indeed assist in leveling the playing field.

Canadians' outside of Quebec should at the very least come to understand the basis of formula. As the basis of wealth redistribution this national policies has had critics for years, including BRAD WALL Has calculations been made with what is believed to be a biased formula? Will the formula survive a modern day FAIRNESS TEST?
Indeed currently the transfer of wealth from provinces in a deficit position in itself should trigger a review! And, if JT II government is truly committed to fairness, the a review of this formula, the valuation of energy on an equal basis & take into account the practice & the value of the underground economy on net income per capita should indeed be the next step in the "Fairness" Agenda.

As for separation my guess is there will be strong minds thinking about the fairness of the Federation and the lack of Checks and balances now with the soft Senate in place, as we well should. The west has contributed much to the prosperity of Canada, and indeed if nothing else, the equalization formula must change.

[westernvicki]

http://nationalpost.com/opinion/peter-holle-artificially-cheap-hydro-power-your-equalization-dollars-at-work

[Klause]

The shortest growing season, we live with it every year, the lack of cropping options and “excessive equipment and labour” makes a lot of sense, compared to other growing regions. It’s a bigger disadvantage than most would believe, plus the cost per unit produced. We better grow good stuff at premiums.

It will be interesting as Fed government sucks the life out of agriculture through taxation and lack of infrastructure development.
- What crops we can’t afford to grow anymore
- how fast, and how big Farms grow trying to generate cash flow
- export infrastructure, special crops, organic, protein extraction, alfalfa, honey, concrete terminals, port loading, cattle
- will the only opportunity be to sell domestic and USA, ? Only because we are close and nice and if Trump doesn’t put tariff on imports?


I’m not all doom and gloom. Just good to know the opportunities and risks.

We're looking at indoor production of organic vegetables. Huge local market and we have a really big advantage over California... Freight.

As for broadacre crops...

I'm not sure. Kazakhstan and the FSU are producing lentils now thanks to us exporting whole seed to them...

They will cut that market. We used to produce premium wheat but this year there's no protein so I'm not sure that's a way to go. Soybeans corn the world is awash in and other than MB we can't grow them well enough to compete.

Canola was the darling crop but it's an oilseed influenced by the veg oil market.

Pulses are still going to be our best bet I think. Perhaps through more innovation and stopping the export of new variteties whole.

Maybe Gerrid could chime in... Where is the SPGA on this issue? I know you had Dr. Grey research it...

[foragefarmer]

Klaus

"So according to you everything is perfect here... That's great!"


No Canada is not prefect never said it was, but I'm not the one say "Uruguay is looking good'" or we should join the USA.

I guess I value where I live a lot more than you do!!!