Where would we be without fossil fuels....Back in stone ages???

[oneoff]

Was any past use of fossil fuels just a sorry experiment that has ruined planet earth?


Or is it more a case of too many bodies (of all kinds) and that all current animals of the earth have to be protected and are "wonderful" as any "Earth Ranger " will tell you.

Was bison farting and belching once acceptable ...but now a cattle herd can't do what comes naturally? Who gets to decide that Canada geese can move in over a couple decades and be on the verge of obviously over populating themselves.

Do we allow one or two issue groups to control food agendas; or what else they determine is unhealthy or unsafe. Especially when trace chemical issues; or hormones or gluten directives are based on scarce conclusive valid research data.

Maybe that is what "Fake news" is based upon.

[tweety]

We may be better off without fossil fuels. While a select few have it quite well - rich white people and Saudis, the majority, not so much.

[chuckChuck]

EO Wilson noted Harvard biologist, once said if everyone on earth wants to have the same standard of living as in North America we would need 9 more planet earths!

Have we already reached or exceeded the sustainable carrying capacity of the earth? History is full of examples of civilizations who degraded or depleted their resources and went into serious decline or disappeared. Did we not learn these lessons?

North Americans and other colonial regions of the Americas were at one time underutilized and full of resources ready to boost the fortunes of those who were lucky enough to arrive in the 'new world".

The problem is there is no new world to escape to now. Unless you think Mars is an option?

We are currently almost totally dependent on fossil fuels. That does not mean we should not consider that fossil energy is finite and has large costs many of which are hidden costs.

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2015/may/18/fossil-fuel-companies-getting-10m-a-minute-in-subsidies-says-imf

"The International Monetary Fund (IMF) said that in 2015 fossil fuels were given 5.3 trillion in subsidies.
Fossil fuel companies are benefiting from global subsidies of $5.3tn (£3.4tn) a year, equivalent to $10m a minute every day, according to a startling new estimate by the International Monetary Fund.

The IMF calls the revelation “shocking” and says the figure is an “extremely robust” estimate of the true cost of fossil fuels. The $5.3tn subsidy estimated for 2015 is greater than the total health spending of all the world’s governments.

The vast sum is largely due to polluters not paying the costs imposed on governments by the burning of coal, oil and gas. These include the harm caused to local populations by air pollution as well as to people across the globe affected by the floods, droughts and storms being driven by climate change.

Nicholas Stern, an eminent climate economist at the London School of Economics, said: “This very important analysis shatters the myth that fossil fuels are cheap by showing just how huge their real costs are. There is no justification for these enormous subsidies for fossil fuels, which distort markets and damages economies, particularly in poorer countries.”

Lord Stern said that even the IMF’s vast subsidy figure was a significant underestimate: “A more complete estimate of the costs due to climate change would show the implicit subsidies for fossil fuels are much bigger even than this report suggests.”

The IMF, one of the world’s most respected financial institutions, said that ending subsidies for fossil fuels would cut global carbon emissions by 20%. That would be a giant step towards taming global warming, an issue on which the world has made little progress to date."

Now I know that many people on this site are by nature very conservative and don't like change and can't possibly see a future without fossil fuels as the primary energy source.

But since fossil fuels are going to run out sooner or later and if 9- 10 billion people want to waste energy like we do in North America, it will be sooner. It is pretty obvious that something else will need to be done.

Even Steven Harper signed a G7 agreement that Canada would move towards eliminating fossil energy use by 2100 (82 years from now - 1 lifetime).

So to sit back and suggest that we do nothing and continue on our merry way is very short term thinking.

Since most of us will be gone in a couple of decades or earlier it will be someone else problem.

[checking]

I know we are better off with fossil fuels. I'm not concerned that it is an uneven wealth creator.

Tweety does not appear to be certain, but he could start a personal experience that coincides with the leaving of fall.

Remember now, those solar panels, or wind turbine you have installed were manufactured with the use of fossil fuels along with damn near everything else, so you can not begin your winter experience with the use of them. We will send a coroner in the spring to determine how long you lasted.

.

[burnt]

We may be better off without fossil fuels. While a select few have it quite well - rich white people and Saudis, the majority, not so much.

It's doubtful that this post would win a Nobel Prize even in today's screwed up society.

[wmoebis]

I don't think it's the use of fossil fuels it's the abuse of them.

Go to store to buy anything it is packaged in non biodegradable plastic. Needed 1 little plastic oring had to buy ten packaged in plastic so wasted 9 orings and package all made from fossil fuels.

And I have to pay carbon tax and GST etc on something I don’t need or want?

[chuckChuck]

I know we are better off with fossil fuels. I'm not concerned that it is an uneven wealth creator.

Tweety does not appear to be certain, but he could start a personal experience that coincides with the leaving of fall.

Remember now, those solar panels, or wind turbine you have installed were manufactured with the use of fossil fuels along with damn near everything else, so you can not begin your winter experience with the use of them. We will send a coroner in the spring to determine how long you lasted.

.

When you drive into Estevan next time take a look at Willett Manufacturing on the way to PV mart. Last time I drove by there was a bunch of solar panels set up on the south side of the building. Why not stop in and see how they are working?

[chuckChuck]

I don't think it's the use of fossil fuels it's the abuse of them.

Go to store to buy anything it is packaged in non biodegradable plastic. Needed 1 little plastic oring had to buy ten packaged in plastic so wasted 9 orings and package all made from fossil fuels.

And I have to pay carbon tax and GST etc on something I don’t need or want?

Agreed waste is a big part of the problem.

[checking]

cc.

From where I live, and your method, that is a 3 day trip!

I don't want to be caught out in winter temperatures, so I will ration my 60 gallons of diesel within a walking 3 mile range of home until spring.

You really should convince tweety that no UN body, or country should suggest a total ban on fossil fuels. And on that note, you should tell Just in Trouble that taxing carbon from a total ban base is wrong. Even on a war footing, there were ration coupons.

[Oliver88]

The population of Canada would decrease quickly without reliable fossil fuel and reliable energy sources. Populations would move closer to the equator.

Staying warm at -40C is fairly important.

[fjlip]

The population of Canada would decrease quickly without reliable fossil fuel and reliable energy sources. Populations would move closer to the equator.

Staying warm at -40C is fairly important.

6-8 months of HEAT required to live here...but we are so nice and freedom is more important than warmth, I guess. My ancestors thought that.

[chuckChuck]

cc.

From where I live, and your method, that is a 3 day trip!

I don't want to be caught out in winter temperatures, so I will ration my 60 gallons of diesel within a walking 3 mile range of home until spring.

You really should convince tweety that no UN body, or country should suggest a total ban on fossil fuels. And on that note, you should tell Just in Trouble that taxing carbon from a total ban base is wrong. Even on a war footing, there were ration coupons.

I can get their in my mid size car which uses 6L/100km so the cost would be about $4.50 one way.

I think you are more afraid of learning something new that may not reinforce your political views.

And by the time they stop or ban using fossil fuel cars there likely will be electric or hydrogen fuel cell electric hybrids to replace them.

Don't worry you wont have to walk in the cold winter! LOL

BTW they have already have net zero housing which generates as much energy as it uses. All with current technology and very efficient design. Check the one out in Edmonton in the following link:

https://beta.theglobeandmail.com/real-estate/calgary-and-edmonton/builders-try-to-make-net-zero-housing-economical-for-home-buyers/article34751239/?ref=http://www.theglobeandmail.com&

[chuckChuck]

So lets recalculate.

Fossil energy is highly subsidized with direct subsidies and indirect subsidies according to the IMF. In which case whenever anyone makes a cost comparison with renewables those subsidies have to be included in the calculation. Correct.

Lets move forward in recognizing that renewables also have hidden costs and in some cases are subsidized. That way we can compare the benefits and costs of each.

Sask power for example must feel that wind is an economic option otherwise it would not invest in new wind generation. They are planning for 50% renewables by 2030. 30% will be wind.

SaskPower's 200 MW Wind Project Moves to RFP Phase of Competition

July 6, 2017

The competitive process for the next 200 megawatts (MW) of utility-scale wind capacity is moving forward, with the Request for Proposal (RFP) phase of the competition. Eight of the 23 independent power producers who entered the Request for Qualification (RFQ) phase have qualified to move on to the RFP phase and have been invited to submit proposals for the competition.

“Wind power will play a key role in Saskatchewan’s electricity future,” said Guy Bruce, SaskPower Vice-President of Special Projects. “As of today, wind makes up a total of five per cent of our available generating capacity. We plan to increase this to 30 per cent by 2030 and this project is one way we will reach our goal.”

SaskPower plans to reduce its greenhouse gas emissions by approximately 40 per cent (from 2005 levels) by 2030. It will significantly increase the amount of renewable electricity in Saskatchewan’s generation mix from 25 per cent today to as much as 50 per cent by 2030.

The competition is being conducted through a two-stage process. In February 2017, SaskPower issued an RFQ to identify independent power producers. Qualified proponents will have until May 25, 2018 to submit their proposals, including choosing their own sites to put forward in the competition. All proposals will be evaluated equally through an open, fair and transparent process. The successful proponent will be announced in fall 2018, with the project expected to be in-service in early 2021.

Wind is an intermittent generation source that requires a ‘back-up’ generation source, like natural gas, when the wind isn’t blowing. This project will generate enough electricity to power approximately 80,000 homes.

SaskPower is facing some unprecedented challenges as we plan for the future, including: a growing demand for power, the transition to cleaner generation options, and the need to upgrade and modernize our aging power grid. We must consider all available options in order to have the right mix to ensure reliable, cost-effective and sustainable power.

[chuckChuck]

http://www.saskpower.com/our-power-future/renewables-roadmap/

[burnt]

The population of Canada would decrease quickly without reliable fossil fuel and reliable energy sources. Populations would move closer to the equator.

Staying warm at -40C is fairly important.

Well, fairly important to those who live in those colder latitudes, anyway.

Not so important to the authors of U.N. Agenda 21/30 as they basked in the warmth of their conference center in Rio DeJaneiro where the average annual temperature is about 24C and varies little from there.

And all the crap that chucky guesses is truthful comes from those imperialistic hogs who spawned that nihilistic propaganda.

And they have fooled millions. The bigger the lie, the easier to sell.