Women in Ag, and Why as Men we Need to do More

[tweety]

Had a close female friend read this while we were at a party with other masters and phd level women in ag, good thing we didn't post last night kind of drunk, but, she said you also need to stick up for yourself too - but that is not even close to the problem.

Also most of their friends who are professionals in Ag disagree with the movement and do not attend because they just don't agree with it. There are 2 groups, one being quite vocal of course.

Believe it or not, as usual, there is 2 sides to the story. She said absolutely there is struggles in Ag, but they don't come from the group Klause is maybe reaching. They said not sure what more you guys can do on what he is asking. Good call. So what is the problem?

They are the managers and old boys club leaders who don't want women or gays. No penis, no respect and it can get downright disgusting.

Farmers are in no way the problem, always a pleasure to deal with. Sure there is the odd asshole, but there always is.

So ya, don't go to the Tupperware party. Not exactly a crisis, but an indicator.

But being sexually harassed, skipped over for promotion, not getting the job, being blamed for that harassment, limiting your career because you filed harassment, that's a whole other league.

Women are either a bitch for sticking up for themselves or a **** for trying to get along. Its no win for professional women in Ag often.

Its a good thing this is anonymous, because these women would endure more harassment from other women even more then men for suggesting movements like this aren't the answer.

So you wanted to discuss problem? Start identifying it.

Its the people that are a big part of the problem who are often in the corner office. And the new crop coming up can be even worse. The problem is not going away. And here's a news alert, women are different then men, think different, work different, interact different. Stop trying to turn women into men. Rather use that uniqueness of sensitivity, multitasking, problem identifying and social skills.

View people as people, respect them for their contribution, skill level, and knowledge, not male female.

Let me just say, that was a lot to hear, and while I probably didn't summarize it as I should, nor even half the points, know it is a real problem. They all felt segregating women even more with movements isn't going to help either.

My take is that Awareness is high, its just a few rich, white, often Christian male 'leaders' don't want it to change. But it only takes a few in every organization to cause a lot of problems.

[Klause]

Excellent post, Tweety!


I want to clarify something

There's a certain group here in sask called women in ag... They make a lot of noise and I don't claim to know their issues or what they want to accomplish.


When I refer to women in ag I do not refer to this group at all... Many of which seem to just want to sit on the already useless producer groups (they are useless adding women will not change that they are useless)


I'm talking about women that actually farm. That run pig barns chicken barns beef operations and grain farm's.


What more can we do? You're saying when a couple guys get together for drinks they aren't making fun of women or lewd sexual comments about them?

Or Kevin Hursh' response that really didn't get any male criticism?


Lots of examples. Sometimes just a few polite words is all it takes.


Having said that I don't disagree at all with your friends' issues... But I can't speak to it as I have no knowledge other than what you read about it...

Probably like they can't see it from Klausette's side.


Look at the guy on the combine forum who flaims any farm run by women will go broke... Women can't do physical work... Women can't haul around square bales... Yadda yadda yadda. Those perceptions exist and they are far more widespread than ya think.

[Blaithin]

I'm not exactly impressed with your response Tweety but I'm more likely to put that down to your word choices and lack of eloquence than the women who's opinions you're sourcing.

Every woman is entitled to their opinion. Every woman has different sensitivities and strengths. I've dealt with a lot of what many would probably call sexual harassment. But when working with the rough type of men on the jobs I have, it's passed off as humour and jokes. And usually it is meant that way, so I don't get offended or worried (too often).

However I'm not quite clear what "Movement" you're talking about? Klause posting a personal view point is a movement? Or encouraging men to be more vocal of the women in their lives? Or more probable, the rise in women only ag events?

If the latter, I do not think that is a movement that needs to be squelched. At all. As I've said before in various topics, Women only events are not a place to avoid men so much as for women to be comfortable and connect. Do farmers have trouble connecting with people? Absolutely! It's quite an isolationist industry at times. Women feel the same. It's nice to go somewhere and talk to other women about female issues instead of being isolated at home.

What are these female issues you ask? Where we go and talk about all those dastardly things those arrogant old men do and say to us? How we feel so repressed!

You're thinking too highly of yourself if you think the only issues women have are male LOL

(Disclaimer, there may be TMI past this point so you've been warned in case you don't want to continue!)

On the Facebook groups Klause mentioned, there are frequent topics that are very repetitive. Here's a few for you to sink your teeth in to.

-Grappling with the poor health or loss of a loved one. Frequently a husband.
-Kids in FFA, 4H and just general school posts.
-Clothing brands that last.
-Women's health issues.

You want that last one expanded on? PAP smears, Cervical cancer, Breast Cancer, Prolapses, Miscarriages. Even something as simple as birth control is very commonly brought up with major discussions on the pill, IUD, implant, nuvaring, shot and their various side effects like depression, anxiety, blood clots, tumours, mood swings, infertility, hysterectomy, etc. etc. etc.

Now Tweety, you tell me honestly, are the women you know in your life, from the Ph.D ones to relatives to slim acquaintances, comfortable enough to come to you with any and all of these issues? Are you comfortable enough to listen to them? Do you want to hear about how someone is trying an IUD because the pill had too many side effects, but now they've been cramping and spotting for 6 months straight or that their period is now heavier and lasts longer?

Maybe you'll say yes to that, who am I to say. But what I can say is that, even if half the men in my life would be comfortable with me coming to them to discuss those things, I'm not comfortable going to them to discuss them. And if I were, I wouldn't be expecting much knowledge about them in comparison to a whole text book of other women's experiences.

Women's events open the door to women's conversation. Talk about periods around men, you're liable to get PMS jokes (those are old and outdone). Add an online component and you get a bit of added anonymity which can make a woman even more brave to ask a question and learn something. Even if it's just to learn she isn't alone, there's nothing wrong with her. Because you know what those old and outdone PMS jokes do? They can easily make you feel like something is wrong with you.

It's funny that if it's called a tupperware party then it's not going to stir up an issue, women should get together and talk about tupperware. But as soon as we removed tupperware and change it to Agriculture.... now there's an issue. In reality, many of the same things are probably being discussed. Think about that the next time you hear about a Woman's only Ag event. Take men right out of the equation.

(None of this in in reference to more extremist ladies who are just out to shout down men and shout up women and scream Repression! at any opportunity. As with any extremists, those are rare examples of the population)

[tweety]

Firstly, The language is for this group, to be relate-able. The movement is the women in Ag, its not for everyone, and not everyone sees it as a great thing. Pendulums and all.

Second, in the workplace there is no need or requirement to talk about all those personal/medical issues you have mentioned. If you want to talk to me about struggles with your IUD, and you feel i have something to contribute then great. More then comfortable to talk about it. But that is not work related! And that is not what this topic is about. That is why you have other women to talk to, as i have men to talk to about testicular cancer, or taking too long to pee. Focus!

Do women want any special treatment? Or do they just want to be treated with respect, and that is not happening.

So how do women address and deal with those issues that i mentioned that are actual workplace issues? Confusing the workplace issues with medical/personal issues makes no sense at all.

Dangerous topic!

[Blaithin]

Most corporate workplaces have policies backing up employees for issues like sexual harassment. People are more likely to run into it with neighbours and acquaintances than at work, unless they’re working for a small company, or in this field, small farmer. I will agree with your friends that workplace sexual harassment is not a huge issue. It is few and far between and usually committed by those corner office types that feel they’re untouchable, yes.

But are you grouping everything together when you call it a movement? That there doesn’t need to be movement and the movement does more segregation and harm than good. What movement are you talking about? A wide spread goal for equal pay and equal opportunity? Or the rise in women’s events? Because my medical examples are to support the importance and desire of women’s only events.

If you don’t feel that the increase in popularity of these events is part of your term “movement” then feel free to ignore that post. But if it is included as an example of further segregation of women from men, then it stands. Everyone needs a place to feel comfortable and that should not fall under the term segregation.

[tweety]

Fair questions.

Perhaps women in Ag could talk about having the tough conversations. Sessions about confidence. How to deal with workplace harassment, what are your rights. Sessions on critical thinking. Business topics specifically geared to women.

Not sales pitches about books with the focus on social event - not that there isn't anything wrong with that - but then call it women conference.

This was in a nutshell the concern expressed. Again, i only posted because i found it fascinating that the concerns expressed made so much more sense and very different then the postings on social media.

To enact change, you have to change too. Can't expect everyone around to change, and not you.

To me, all valid points. Again, not my points. But the topic is here.

[MDH]

Tweety - It definitely looks like sessions on critical thinking are in order. And I say that as a woman.

[blackpowder]

I'm not well read enough to add to the excellent posts here. But the news about Charlie Rose gave me thought.
Am reading a book (not very good) called "Strong Fathers, Strong Daughters. Although well into middle age, my daughter (who doesnt live with me) is fairly young. What 'commercial' as a man do I show her? Consistency, morals integrity of course, but there is more. Show them the man you would like them to marry I suppose. But I also wish for kids that dont tolerate manipulation or at least recognize it and other bullshit. For every female that reported a problem with Charlie, there are dozens more.
In that circumstance I would like my daughter to boot him in the gonads and walk away with head high "to hell with the job it doesnt deserve me". Not too many repeat offenders after a few boots eh?
The two sexes are rather different no matter what Gloria Steinem wants. Understanding that and moving on is happening for some.