Some one smarter than me explain the BTO!

[MBgrower]

Did Gary Pike suffer any financial hit with his attempt. ....


And what about those New Holland farmers that have office workers....

any farm that has non family office workers, and an office located off the farm will be the first to go.

[farmaholic]

We should note that even some farms that look like they might resemble SF3's description, they are actually very well heeled and financial powerhouses. Not leveraged to the max or using other people's money to drive "their" farm growth! That make calculated well managed risks.

So when that special land comes up for sale they are able to pounce on it without putting their operations at risk, in fact they can probably afford to be on the wrong side of the trend(buying high when things have plateaued or are coming down)... because they look at it as a long term investment for the family operation and have every intention on staying active farmers for the foreseeable future.... because the kids want to be involved and part of it.

Then there are those "small" operations who likely have stronger balance sheets and just as profitable(if not more) than those who, as SF3 described, are just spinning their wheels....

I know where I want to be! The days of wanting to move mountains are well behind me.

[Oliver88]

After reading this thread there are a lot of good points and eye opening points for a small-medium sized farmer with older iron.

Maybe Iceman is right and INP would be a good investment after all??

[iceman]

Maybe Iceman is right and INP would be a good investment after all??

She's all Case Ih paint right now in good old INP share land. Been down hill since Wall announced he was stepping down. Drum roll......................

Iceman Out

[SASKFARMER3]

Good points I remember in the 80s one farm out of all that bought survived and 25 years later they started to buy a little again. Only one rest were gone, downsized and finally out. One out of lots, so yes some today if a piece came up can afford to buy and will survive.

It's lessons that history teaches.

I really believe their is a template it's not ment to destroy farms it's actually smart in a rising market and great prices.

But farming isn't like any other business so much from weather to governments to God can effect a crop and your profit.

[farmaholic]

How would an admission of percieved stagnation sit with you guys?

No land bought since 2004...and paid off a while ago. I really don't consider buying new iron(which we've done)"growing the farm".

I know I should have bought more land but without knowing if there was anyone to pass the torch too....I felt I had enough. I always liked buying land and in hindsight has always been the right thing to do....even if in the short term when it didn't seem like it was...the long term definitely was worth it.

Best return on investment I've ever made but as I said before....unless it's sold I will never realize it.

So the capital waits.....maybe something will come up.

Edit: bought in 2004 not 2014....where does the time go...lol

[fjlip]

How would an admission of percieved stagnation sit with you guys?

No land bought since 2014...and paid off a while ago. I really don't consider buying new iron(which we've done)"growing the farm".

I know I should have bought more land but without knowing if there was anyone to pass the torch too....I felt I had enough. I always liked buying land and in hindsight has always been the right thing to do....even if in the short term when it didn't seem like it was...the long term definitely was worth it.

Best return on investment I've ever made but as I said before....unless it's sold I will never realize it.

So the capital waits.....maybe something will come up.

Be sure we don't LIVE POOR, die rich...kids will be happy when they sell it

[SASKFARMER3]

I have seen that happen before. Parents work like idiots to get ahead and as soon as their gone the kids sell the asset for the cash and buy things in the city. Once the farm is gone its gone.

But telling or teaching your kids about a farm should be priority one. Way ahead of the experts on retirement planing etc. That has a place but to a bookkeeper etc they look at the farm as a cash cow to divide.

My kids have traveled with us since they could walk. Probably they have been to more places than some of my neighbours. Their is no i wish we could go here or their with them. They know the meaning of the farm and what its worth and what it costs to run a farm.

Some dont talk to their kids about the business we do.

My wife does push the education and working out away from the farm. Get a good carrier with a pension and you can play farm till your blue in the face later. Also have a wife that works.

Look at the big picture. Its a asset you want some thing borrow against it if you need to.

Most in city get their homes paid off and the first thing the bank does is lends them a opp line up to 60% of the value of the house. Then you see the collector cars, sleds and boats and cabins happen plus throw in Phoenix homes.

Just saying the ones in the City probably have more debt than some farmers with way less risk

[AlbertaFarmer5]

I have seen that happen before. Parents work like idiots to get ahead and as soon as their gone the kids sell the asset for the cash and buy things in the city. Once the farm is gone its gone.

But telling or teaching your kids about a farm should be priority one. Way ahead of the experts on retirement planing etc. That has a place but to a bookkeeper etc they look at the farm as a cash cow to divide.

My kids have traveled with us since they could walk. Probably they have been to more places than some of my neighbours. Their is no i wish we could go here or their with them. They know the meaning of the farm and what its worth and what it costs to run a farm.

Some dont talk to their kids about the business we do.

My wife does push the education and working out away from the farm. Get a good carrier with a pension and you can play farm till your blue in the face later. Also have a wife that works.

Look at the big picture. Its a asset you want some thing borrow against it if you need to.

Most in city get their homes paid off and the first thing the bank does is lends them a opp line up to 60% of the value of the house. Then you see the collector cars, sleds and boats and cabins happen plus throw in Phoenix homes.

Just saying the ones in the City probably have more debt than some farmers with way less risk

Happened here, and they didn't even wait for our parents to be gone, one already sold and moved to city, one more in process.

[Oliver88]

Most in city get their homes paid off and the first thing the bank does is lends them a opp line up to 60% of the value of the house. Then you see the collector cars, sleds and boats and cabins happen plus throw in Phoenix homes.
Just saying the ones in the City probably have more debt than some farmers with way less risk

Agreed and it might be alarming to see the actual net worth statements if there is an increase in interest rates.
The families in the city with a 3/4 ton diesel, fifth wheel, quads and luxury SUV who go on a hot vacation every winter better be making a large salary.

[SASKFARMER3]

Just saying i live in the city and see whats happening here. I also farm in the rural and its a similar.

When a home in the city hit say 300000 and it wasn't much of a home and the owner had it payed for the banks came with a line of credit to help the guy out. 60% of the value. Go buy what you need was the call.

Well lots did just that cabin at the lake new quads sleds or boats.

Some even their home in Phoenix.

Its lending at its finest.

[foragefarmer]

"Agreed and it might be alarming to see the actual net worth statements if there is an increase in interest rates.
The families in the city with a 3/4 ton diesel, fifth wheel, quads and luxury SUV who go on a hot vacation every winter better be making a large salary. "


Do you think farmers are any better? Always pointing fingers at somebody else! Do you not read what is posted here on Agriville during the winter every Friday.


Sk3 your farming 10000 (which you point out every spring) what category do you fall under, smaller BTO?

[SASKFARMER3]

I have a family farm.

Our employees are our older sons.

My folks still deliver food and move vehicles.

Our harvest crew is friends and family.

So its a family farm.

Just trying to make a buck.

No BTO here. I leave that for others.

[SASKFARMER3]

All this was pointing out if a farm went from 3000 to over 21000 in last 15 years your probably subscribed to the above farm.

Its a template.

Its not about me or the city neighbours.

Its about banking and lending money.

[foragefarmer]

Cheap money will get all types in trouble, no specific group is immune if there is no discipline.

Canadian Western farmers ( size doesn't matter) debt load is at record levels and larger than our USA neighbors. Hard to imagine what will happen IF interest rates were to move up a fee percentage points.