question for grass farmer

[Hamloc]

hamloc, you claim to believe and accept modern technology, all provided by science yet you refuse to even consider science of climate change. I think a farmer who believes herbicedes including glyphosate are safe because scientific testing says so but denies man is having any impact on climate is just as hypocritical as the radical environmentalist.

Show me where I said man wasn't having an effect on the environment? What I have constantly argued is that imposing a carbon tax in Canada will not change the world's environment. Leaving all of Canada's oil in the ground will not change the world's oil consumption it will only be produced elsewhere. Anybody with a brain knows C02 is essential to life on this planet. Let's be realistic, the islands of plastic waste in the ocean weren't created by whales, mountains of garbage weren't created by birds, cutting down trees in the Amazon to grow more soybeans wasn't done by gorillas. Mans imprint on the earth is undeniable. But giving more money to Justin Trudeau or Rachel Notley won't change a damn thing. And remember most proponents of climate change don't support the science of GMO's or the use of herbicides!!

[Hamloc]

Whilst I sometimes get really mad at grassy... mainly when he talks about excess rain actually...

He provides a different viewpoint on this site, and it's a good thing.

You have no debate without dissenting views. I have friends that are very left wing, anti-gmo, social utopians... and I have ultra conservatives as friends... and a bunch of people that fall in the middle...

It's fun to debate and discuss and hell even get mad at each other from time to time... Consensus is overrated. Debate isn't.


Grassy keep posting... 'cause even if I don't agree with you it's still a learning experience!


My $0.02.

Ciao!

I certainly agree Klause, I do enjoy a good debate.

[grassfarmer]

Hamloc, In survey figures I've seen 74% of Canadians feel global warming is a serious personal threat. Yet in another survey only 8% of Canadians claimed to be vegetarian or "mostly" vegetarian.

[shtferbrains]

You describe my feelings very well Hamloc.

I might add that of those 74% that fear climate change most probably live in one of the brightest spots on this map and aren't willing to turn out the lights,quit travel,or give up any lifestyle.

http://darksitefinder.com/maps/world.html

The brightest spots will get brighter, no question.

No worries if we can replace all that energy with a whole new infrastructure and basically scrap the old one.

And create all that horsepower that petroleum provides a nice small transportable energy source for now.

[dmlfarmer]

Show me where I said man wasn't having an effect on the environment? What I have constantly argued is that imposing a carbon tax in Canada will not change the world's environment. Leaving all of Canada's oil in the ground will not change the world's oil consumption it will only be produced elsewhere. Anybody with a brain knows C02 is essential to life on this planet. Let's be realistic, the islands of plastic waste in the ocean weren't created by whales, mountains of garbage weren't created by birds, cutting down trees in the Amazon to grow more soybeans wasn't done by gorillas. Mans imprint on the earth is undeniable. But giving more money to Justin Trudeau or Rachel Notley won't change a damn thing. And remember most proponents of climate change don't support the science of GMO's or the use of herbicides!!

So, Hamloc, I am very interested in what your solution is. If a tax is not the answer, what is?

[oneoff]

The environmental movement needs to show sincerity to incorporate a solution to the fact of uncontrolled human population increace.

Just because population control is a very touchy subject....doesn't diminish the fact that it is the reason the movement even exists.

[Hamloc]

So, Hamloc, I am very interested in what your solution is. If a tax is not the answer, what is?

Dml, when an energy source is discovered that is as cheap and portable as fossil fuels what you perceive to be the problem will be solved.

I will give you an example of what I see as the problem with what is considered the present solution. Realistically if you had the money you could by an electric car and put up your own solar powered charging station and drive completely off the grid. So I did some searching. Envision solar makes a self contained electric car charging station called EV-ARC with sun tracking technology for just over $40000 USD. If you want to drive during the day and charge it at night this system would work. The only problem is that a Tesla S as an example has an 85 kwh battery, the EV-ARC has a 22 kwh battery, you would only get 1/4 of a charge. Now I suppose you could stack up tesla powerwall 2 batteries at 9000 CAD a piece. They store 13.5 kwh of electricity, you would need 6($54000) to store enough energy to charge the S and of course you still need solar panels and related hardware. Now you will argue that it could be charged during the day. True enough. In my case a round trip to Calgary is just under 400 km, can't do it even in a Tesla S without a top up somewhere. Whereas I fill the gas tank on my Equinox, rip to Calgary and back, just over half a tank of gas. Anyway you get the point.

As for the future. I see our biggest problems much different than you. I Wonder how I will afford heating and electrical costs with our government's tax appetite. I look at my kids and I wonder what they will earn a living at in the future as automation eliminates many of today's jobs. I see a future where wars are fought over water not oil caused by pollution of water sources and overuse of aquifers. Dml, I get the impression AGW supporters only see one narrow problem, C02, this narrow focus ignores many problems of far greater scope imo.

[mustardman]

In 47 States in the US, Solar power IS Cheaper than Fossil Fuel

[Hamloc]

In 47 States in the US, Solar power IS Cheaper than Fossil Fuel

Mustardman, so that is during the day, what are they doing at night? How do you make it practical in Canada in the winter on the road at -20? I agree it makes sense in the southern US to run air conditioning both production and demand peak at similar times, in Canada a lot of our demand occurs in the winter when daylight hours are the shortest!!

[AlbertaFarmer5]

Dml,

As for the future. I see our biggest problems much different than you. I Wonder how I will afford heating and electrical costs with our government's tax appetite. I look at my kids and I wonder what they will earn a living at in the future as automation eliminates many of today's jobs. I see a future where wars are fought over water not oil caused by pollution of water sources and overuse of aquifers. Dml, I get the impression AGW supporters only see one narrow problem, C02, this narrow focus ignores many problems of far greater scope imo.

Very well said. There are massive environmental problems in our world. Nearly everything we do is unsustainable for even a short period of time in the big picture. Yet we have been distracted from the real problems by this CO2 scam. It is ruining the credibility of scientists and politicians, taking massive resources away from real problems, consuming scarce non renewable resources, including rare earth elements, land and additional hydrocarbons. When the real problems catch up with us, it will be like the boy who cried wolf. No one will believe the credible scientists, and there will be a lack of resources and energy sources to deal with the problems.

[fjlip]

The environmental movement needs to show sincerity to incorporate a solution to the fact of uncontrolled human population increace.

Just because population control is a very touchy subject....doesn't diminish the fact that it is the reason the movement even exists.

Heard that angle many times, first sign of a progressive society is smaller family size, then leads to Japan's issue of not replacing themselves.

[dmlfarmer]

As for the future. I see our biggest problems much different than you. I Wonder how I will afford heating and electrical costs with our government's tax appetite. I look at my kids and I wonder what they will earn a living at in the future as automation eliminates many of today's jobs. I see a future where wars are fought over water not oil caused by pollution of water sources and overuse of aquifers. Dml, I get the impression AGW supporters only see one narrow problem, C02, this narrow focus ignores many problems of far greater scope imo.

Hamloc, I agree there are other big problems. I too wonder what will happen as more and more people are replaced by robotics and automation that is cheaper than labor. In a consumer society were most people are already over indebted, what service can replaced workers offer that consumers will willingly borrow more to purchase? And if there is no work, who will end up supporting the un- and underemployed. If this is not addressed, crime, and social unrest will increase exponentially.

You worry about water supply, yet much of fresh water in the world is used by agriculture. In a warming world, agriculture demand will skyrocket, so shouldn't we worry as much about warming to limit growing demands?

You worry about taxes on fossil fuels. But I find it interesting that I am paying as much at the gas pumps, before tax, as I was when the barrel of oil was double the price it is today. The tax bite on fossil fuels is less than the price gouging that happens every long weekend.

Rising sea levels are bound to impact millions, forest forests, wild weather, and drought costs will all rise with global warming, globally air conditioning already uses as much energy as heating so a hotter climate will increase costs. Yes there are other problems but we simply cannot ignore warming as it will exasperate just about every other problem we have and add new ones. We either pay to minimize the impact today or pay a whole lot more to clean up the mess in the future.