Coming to Canada ......

[Happytrails]

Grassy "Taxing the rancher per head isn't going to increase the retail price of beef so there is no way it could work."
Sounds counter intuitive. Any credible economic analysis to support the idea that increasing production costs has no effect on prices?

[farmaholic]

Grassy "Taxing the rancher per head isn't going to increase the retail price of beef so there is no way it could work."
Sounds counter intuitive. Any credible economic analysis to support the idea that increasing production costs has no effect on prices?

The costs(taxes) have to be passed up the chain to the consumer to curb consumption. Do distilleries and brewers pay the tax? Tobacco farmers pay the taxes on cigarettes?

Hard to believe this discussion is even taking place

[Stampsguy]

I thought that ranching was carbon negative because of all the grass involved sucking up carbon.

And who has to pay the tax on the deer and elk farts.

[grassfarmer]

Grassy "Taxing the rancher per head isn't going to increase the retail price of beef so there is no way it could work."
Sounds counter intuitive. Any credible economic analysis to support the idea that increasing production costs has no effect on prices?

Ranch level economic analysis tells me that increased production costs sometimes affects prices negatively, sometimes positively and sometimes not at all. Certainly can't be relied upon in this case to drive retail beef price up if a rancher were to be charged $xx per cow. Think of a drought situation - hay goes through the roof, cattle price goes through the floor.

[checking]

Drought and hay.

What is through the roof for you? Your example was two cents a pound stacked in your yard by the neighbor. Someone was taken, badly.

[grassfarmer]

Drought and hay.

What is through the roof for you? Your example was two cents a pound stacked in your yard by the neighbor. Someone was taken, badly.

No clue what that was supposed to mean.

Hay going through the roof is when it's 10 cents a lb or more as it was in 2015 in Alberta.

[Happytrails]

Costs of production always get built into retail prices. Simple supply and demand. Not simple enough for socialists apparently.

[grassfarmer]

Costs of production always get built into retail prices. Simple supply and demand. Not simple enough for socialists apparently.

Ah the delusion of the "free market". Tell all the grain guys to treat themselves to new combines then - nothing to worry about - retail price of bread will go up and the extra money will all find it's way back to their pockets....or not!

[Happytrails]

Ah the delusion of the "free market". Tell all the grain guys to treat themselves to new combines then - nothing to worry about - retail price of bread will go up and the extra money will all find it's way back to their pockets....or not!

Wow. Breathtaking refusal to recognize the most basic rules of economics. To address your example the price of bread won't be forced up unless all wheat growers are forced to purchase new combines.

The market is always king...but sometimes you have to look beyond the end of your nose to see that. Soviet Russia was the definitive experiment on the ability of the command economy to generate production.

[grassfarmer]

Wow. Breathtaking refusal to recognize the most basic rules of economics. To address your example the price of bread won't be forced up unless all wheat growers are forced to purchase new combines.

Breathtaking refusal to accept the realities of the current market places we have. So I say as an experiment we get all the farmers to buy new combines - should be easy given your assurance that the market will pay them for it and who doesn't like new, shiny stuff? Then what's the mechanism that acts to drive up the wheat price? Cargill, ADM and fellow grain companies have no reason to pay more because farmers desire it - only reason they ever pay up is if there is a shortage. Increasingly price spikes in farmer's favour are becoming scarce and short lived because these companies have the ability to import just enough from other countries to destabilize the market here and bring the price they have to pay down. It seems you don't understand the race to the bottom commodity agriculture has become.

[Happytrails]

One more time only. Some of the farmers won't buy new combines. Therefore there will be less grain harvested and the price will go up. The same with the carbon tax. Higher costs will cause production to drop to some degree.

I notice you didn't include the whole quote Grassy. The message is that MARKET forces ALWAYS rule.... over time.

[grassfarmer]

One more time only. Some of the farmers won't buy new combines. Therefore there will be less grain harvested and the price will go up. The same with the carbon tax. Higher costs will cause production to drop to some degree.

I notice you didn't include the whole quote Grassy. The message is that MARKET forces ALWAYS rule.... over time.

Why? running out of ways to try to explain something that makes no sense? Price of combines does not affect how many acres get combined - farmers get it done whether with brand new or old junk. Grain Cos couldn't care less whether you have new combines to pay for, they always buy the cheapest they can. The premise of your argument is simply wrong - farmers are price takers not price makers. Higher production costs do not guarantee higher selling prices for farmer's grain. Doesn't work in a marketplace that is fragmented and broken, with little competition beyond the farm gate. Lastly we don't live in a bubble - if Canadian production costs were to get so high that production was cut grain companies would simply import enough from a cheaper source to stop the price rising here.