Alberta's Financial Abyss . . . .

[Horse]

Depends on how the environment the private industry operates in is set up and governed. Remember the genius system of the AESO auctions whereby the power generating companies had to bid in their offers to supply power over each time period by Dutch auction. So as an example a hydro company might offer in 30% of the requirement at $0 per megawatt hour because they couldn't store the power (this actually happened on occasion) Then the coal generated operators would offer 40% of the requirement at $10, then some other generator would offer in 25% of the requirement at $50 leaving only 5% of the supply to fill - which could be done by say nuclear generation - at $90 megawatt hour. So any sensible person would add these up and average the costs out over the total supply (100%) and that would be the cost the consumer would pay - but not in Alberta - they turned around and paid all the generators the $90 rate for all their production - even the guys that offered power at zero cost! You couldn't make this stuff up it is so crazy - even the mafia wouldn't be as bold as to try this kind of extortion but it was all approved and allowed to happen on the PC's watch. This is why Alberta had some of the most expensive electricity in North America - straight into the pockets of Enmax and Altalink and their like - because their directors or spouses were often high up members of the PC party.

AMEN but you won't make those dyed in the blue toys believe it.

[GDR]

Depends on how the environment the private industry operates in is set up and governed. Remember the genius system of the AESO auctions whereby the power generating companies had to bid in their offers to supply power over each time period by Dutch auction. So as an example a hydro company might offer in 30% of the requirement at $0 per megawatt hour because they couldn't store the power (this actually happened on occasion) Then the coal generated operators would offer 40% of the requirement at $10, then some other generator would offer in 25% of the requirement at $50 leaving only 5% of the supply to fill - which could be done by say nuclear generation - at $90 megawatt hour. So any sensible person would add these up and average the costs out over the total supply (100%) and that would be the cost the consumer would pay - but not in Alberta - they turned around and paid all the generators the $90 rate for all their production - even the guys that offered power at zero cost! You couldn't make this stuff up it is so crazy - even the mafia wouldn't be as bold as to try this kind of extortion but it was all approved and allowed to happen on the PC's watch. This is why Alberta had some of the most expensive electricity in North America - straight into the pockets of Enmax and Altalink and their like - because their directors or spouses were often high up members of the PC party.

Could very well be as you described, I don't know but isn't that exactly the left wing social system in a nutshell?? Pay everyone the same no matter the need or contribution!! You should be happy with that! LOL.

Merry Christmas anyhow, Santa is on his way.

[Hamloc]

The oil sands have a special deal so I don't believe we would have produced less and even if we did we would still have some cheap congenital crude to sell.
IMHO its because of the likes of GDR ,LEP ,Hamloc that we are in this mess if you as good supporters of the cons would have been watching what was going on and held them accountable instead of making excuses for them ,we had one of the most arrogant cons Ken Kowalski , then Steve west ,for his boondoggle of elect deregulation,I could go on forever but I fail to see how the NDs could possibly ****up worse than those assholes did

Horse, you make a lot of judgements on my political leanings. First off did I support Ralph Klein? Yes initially the cuts in spending and the lowering of the debt were very positive. Near the end of his tenure me and the PC's parted ways. I never agreed with privatizing the electrical system(to small of a market for real competition) and near the end of Ralph's days he would just throw money at a problem without thinking. Now of course Horse, you would think the fact that I have voted Wildrose ever since to even be worse. First and foremost I want a financially responsible government. The PC's weren't, the NDP are not. But I am also realistic. I realize that there is no way we can lower government spending enough now to balance the budget nor should we. So today there is really no party with a platform that I agree with totally. Imo the province would be much better off with a sales tax than a carbon tax. The present carbon tax does nothing to help the debt and is just used by the NDP to buy votes. Also as a farmer I realize I am dependant at present on fossil fuels and that the carbon tax will disproportionately cost me money with no perceived benefit. While a sales tax would cost me money it would at least go towards health care and education. Regardless, Horse I hope you and your family have a Merry Chistmas

[Horse]

All politics aside. MERRY CHRISTMAS everyone.

[grassfarmer]

Could very well be as you described, I don't know but isn't that exactly the left wing social system in a nutshell?? .......You should be happy with that! LOL.

No, I've never been one to like the average person being robbed regardless of whether it's a "left wing social system" or deregulated Corporate Communism. I oppose both of them vehemently.

[Guest]

Why blame Quebec for Alberta's mismanagement? LOL The equalization program is paid for with federal taxes collected in every province. Federal taxes still have to be paid regardless of how federal programs work. So Your argument is full of shit.

Actually your argument is right full of shit . You dont think its odd that quebec has collected every year since inception ??? Its called abuse of the system

[tweety]

Critics Slam Alberta's New Royalty Review as Policy Disaster

https://thetyee.ca/News/2016/02/02/Alberta-Royalty-Review-Disaster/

"In another submission, the economist Mark Anielski reported how the province would have benefited if it had kept Lougheed's approach to a robust and healthy royalty regime.

"Had Alberta maintained a 30 per cent royalty rate on the share of the value of the oil and gas produced between 1971 to 2014, Albertans would have generated $471.4 billion in oil and gas royalties. Had 50 per cent of these royalties been invested in the Alberta Heritage Savings and Trust Fund with annual average return of five per cent per annum we would now have an investment account worth over $481 billion."

The current savings fund holds less than $20 billion." [Tyee]

Alberta's resources have been mismanaged for decades after Lougheed.

Anyone care to debate that this post is wrong? Good luck with that!

Another great question, what would the Cons have done differently the past 2 years? They certainly never did anything to prepare for the inevitable crash in pittance of royalties rec'd even when times were good.

Its pretty easy to glaze over the problem and make up fairy tales of what another could be doing. Certainly a defense mechanism to avoid reality.

[LEP]

Anyone care to debate that this post is wrong? Good luck with that!

Another great question, what would the Cons have done differently the past 2 years? They certainly never did anything to prepare for the inevitable crash in pittance of royalties rec'd even when times were good.

Its pretty easy to glaze over the problem and make up fairy tales of what another could be doing. Certainly a defense mechanism to avoid reality.

Actually, it is a huge fallacy that you can significantly increase royalties (taxes) and have no change on output. So this study is a fairy tale. A complete myth.

Not saying royalties shouldn't have been higher, but to look back and say if we only doubled royalties we would have had double the revenue is complete bunk.

[tweety]

completely mismanaged doesn't help the situation. Giving it away doesn't help albertans either. The PC's lost their way because it was a desperation vote by a lot of very pissed off Albertans of complete ineptness on the PC part. Redford was the final straw.

[sumdumguy]

Actually your argument is right full of shit . You dont think its odd that quebec has collected every year since inception ??? Its called abuse of the system

Think the equalization formula is rigged against the West and slanted toward Quebec? Think Quebec income exempts certain lucrative industries? Only way to really eliminate the problem is to succeed from the country, as in Adios Amigos.

[Guest]

Think the equalization formula is rigged against the West and slanted toward Quebec? Think Quebec income exempts certain lucrative industries? Only way to really eliminate the problem is to succeed from the country, as in Adios Amigos.

Wouldnt that be a sweet moment

[Hamloc]

completely mismanaged doesn't help the situation. Giving it away doesn't help albertans either. The PC's lost their way because it was a desperation vote by a lot of very pissed off Albertans of complete ineptness on the PC part. Redford was the final straw.

I think Tweety your not going far enough back in history. The oil price collapsed in 1985 and Alberta started to accumulate debt. If I remember correctly having lived through those years in Alberta, the royalty regime was first modified under Don Getty in an attempt to attract the oil development dollars back to Alberta that had left under the NEP. As for Ralph Klein he was a victim of his own success. His tax changes that quickly increased oil developement and attracted 10's of thousands of workers to Alberta put a strain on public services like health and education. The PC's didn't react quick enough and didn't make the tax changes necessary to fund them. As for your assertion on royalties at 30%, the present royalty regime peaks at 40% on conventional oil. The royalties on oilsands bitumen are far lower, can and should these be changed, good question. To a some extent tax measures implemented by government are a reflection of the opinions of the populous, hence the lack of a sales tax in Alberta. As for the carbon tax, Albertan's didn't get a chance to vote on that yet, that will occur in the next election.