First people to claim this land??

[chuckChuck]

Um....

Because the treaties were done with the understanding that the Aboriginals were here first. If however, that was a false pretense (I.E. science can prove European analogues were here first) then the contracts / treaties become void because they were signed under false conditions.

If European stone age people arrived and Asian stone age people arrived during the last ice age, and it looks like there is some archaeological and dna evidence to support this, it still doesn't change the fact that both these groups made up first nations peoples in North America.

It looks like the largest amount of DNA came from asians and only a small amount came from stone age europeans.

Regardless of where first nations came from or descended from they still occupied much of North America and were and still are considered first nations.

So where do you get the idea that the treaties were signed under false conditions?

What I would suggest is, the underlying issue as raised by Mr Big Wheel is somehow first nations treaties aren't valid and first nations have no claim to resources or compensation.

If this is the argument that Big,you and numerous other posts are trying to make, you wont succeed politically, morally or intellectually.

I could use stronger language to describe your contempt and weak attempts to further marginalize first nations, but I will restrain myself and leave it at that.

[burnt]

If Europeans...

I could use stronger language to describe your contempt and weak attempts to further marginalize first nations, but I will restrain myself and leave it at that.

Self-restraint is very commendable when arguing from a very weak position.

[chuckChuck]

Self-restraint is very commendable when arguing from a very weak position.

If you have a counter argument what is it?

[Daylate]

So they weren't first nations. They were the current inhabitants of the land that europeans decided to organize treaties with. Not sure how treaties were written up. But for the era, I'd say it was the best outcome for the current inhabitants. Looking across the globe at groups with technological advantages it was not uncommon to wipe inhabitants off the map to set up shop in a new land.
If treaties were written up as it being their land and this being more about letting us on it to do what we please. Then yes rip up the treaty. But if it's written up as us wanting peace with the people at the time and wanting to live on the land "together" with those people. And us looking after their well being. Then sorry to all taxpayers.Cause it's staying.
Sidenote... As them not being first nations, Who did THEY get ownership from?

[the big wheel]

One other problem with many of the treaties is that they were never interpreted for decades after. What might have been meant then may not be what it means now. Throw in the fact all these interpretations were done not open in the public and now if you look at it you might say well ya that's what it says but give the original papers and some stuff is just word of mouth passed down and let's see all of them out in the open before decipherring which by the way is biased because the govwrernt in power doing the deciphering isn't going to do anything to
Lose the short term elections are they?

When it says agriculture equipment does it say 12 brand new John Deere combines parked in the bush because no one would run them or did it say Massey 92 and a 44 Massey tractor?
Did it say brand new houses that get replaced every 10 years or did I say a teepee of which they lived in?

[blackpowder]

Chief Clarence Louie, Osoyoos BC speaking in Northern Alberta :

Speaking to a large aboriginal conference and some of the attendees, including a few who hold high office, have straggled in.

'I can't stand people who are late, he says into the microphone. Indian Time doesn't cut it. '
Some giggle, but no one is quite sure how far he is going to go. Just sit back and listen:

'My first rule for success is Show up on time.'
'My No. 2 rule for success is follow Rule No. 1.'
'If your life sucks, it's because you suck.'
'Quit your sniffling.'
'Join the real world. Go to school, or get a job.'
'Get off of welfare. Get off your butt.'

He pauses, seeming to gauge whether he dare, then does.
'People often say to me, How you doin'? Geez I'm working with Indians what do you think?'
Now they are openly laughing ..... applauding. Clarence Louie is everything that was advertised and more.

'Our ancestors worked for a living, he says. So should you.'

He is, fortunately, aboriginal himself. If someone else stood up and said these things - the white columnist standing there with his mouth open, for example - you'd be seen as a racist. Instead, Chief Clarence Louie is seen, increasingly, as one of the most interesting and innovative native leaders in the country even though he avoids national politics.

He has come here to Fort McMurray because the aboriginal community needs, desperately, to start talking about economic development and what all this multibillion-dollar oil madness might mean, for good and for bad.

Clarence Louie is chief and CEO of the Osoyoos Band in British Columbia's South Okanagan. He is 44 years old, though he looks like he would have been an infant when he began his remarkable 20-year-run as chief.. He took a band that had been declared bankrupt and taken over by Indian Affairs and he has turned in into an inspiration.

In 2000, the band set a goal of becoming self-sufficient in five years. They're there.

The Osoyoos, 432 strong, own, among other things, a vineyard, a winery, a golf course and a tourist resort, and they are partners in the Baldy Mountain ski development. They have more businesses per capita than any other first nation in Canada.

There are not only enough jobs for everyone, there are so many jobs being created that there are now members of 13 other tribal communities working for the Osoyoos. The little band contributes $40-million a year to the area economy.

Chief Louie is tough. He is as proud of the fact that his band fires its own people as well as hires them. He has his mottos posted throughout the Rez. He believes there is no such thing as consensus, that there will always be those who disagree. And, he says, he is milquetoast compared to his own mother when it comes to how today's lazy aboriginal youth, almost exclusively male, should be dealt with.

Rent a plane, she told him, and fly them all to Iraq. Dump'em off and all the ones who make it back are keepers. Right on, Mom.
The message he has brought here to the Chipewyan, Dene and Cree who live around the oil sands is equally direct: 'Get involved, create jobs and meaningful jobs, not just window dressing for the oil companies.'

'The biggest employer,' he says, 'shouldn't be the band office.'

He also says the time has come to get over it. 'No more whining about 100-year-old failed experiments.' 'No foolishly looking to the Queen to protect rights.'

Louie says aboriginals here and along the Mackenzie Valley should not look at any sharing in development as rocking-chair money but as investment opportunity to create sustainable businesses. He wants them to move beyond entry-level jobs to real jobs they earn all the way to the boardrooms. He wants to see business manners develop: showing up on time, working extra hours. The business lunch, he says, should be drive through, and then right back at it.

'You're going to lose your language and culture faster in poverty than you will in economic development', he says to those who say he is ignoring tradition.

Tough talk, at times shocking talk given the audience, but on this day in this community, they took it and, judging by the response, they loved it.

Eighty per cent like what I have to say, Louie says, twenty per cent don't. I always say to the 20 per cent, 'Get over it.' 'Chances are you're never going to see me again and I'm never going to see you again' 'Get some counseling.'

The first step, he says, is all about leadership. He prides himself on being a stay-home chief who looks after the potholes in his own backyard and wastes no time running around fighting 100-year-old battles.

'The biggest challenge will be how you treat your own people.'

'Blaming government? That time is over.'



Maybe someone should get him to talk to Attawapiskat Chief Theresa Spence.

Sorry for long cut and pastes.
Taken off facebook hope true.
Perhaps the only answer left is from within.

[burnt]

Clarence Louie is the kind of leader that every community in the country needs, but few have. Lots of support to be found for your "cut and paste"!

[Guest]

that is really interesting , thanks ,bp.need to read more things like this instead of miring in the shit. and it doesn't matter how much money they are given ,without an attitude change , nothing will change.

[Bowerpower]

Chief Clarence Louie, Osoyoos BC speaking in Northern Alberta :

Speaking to a large aboriginal conference and some of the attendees, including a few who hold high office, have straggled in.

'I can't stand people who are late, he says into the microphone. Indian Time doesn't cut it. '
Some giggle, but no one is quite sure how far he is going to go. Just sit back and listen:

'My first rule for success is Show up on time.'
'My No. 2 rule for success is follow Rule No. 1.'
'If your life sucks, it's because you suck.'
'Quit your sniffling.'
'Join the real world. Go to school, or get a job.'
'Get off of welfare. Get off your butt.'

He pauses, seeming to gauge whether he dare, then does.
'People often say to me, How you doin'? Geez I'm working with Indians what do you think?'
Now they are openly laughing ..... applauding. Clarence Louie is everything that was advertised and more.

'Our ancestors worked for a living, he says. So should you.'

He is, fortunately, aboriginal himself. If someone else stood up and said these things - the white columnist standing there with his mouth open, for example - you'd be seen as a racist. Instead, Chief Clarence Louie is seen, increasingly, as one of the most interesting and innovative native leaders in the country even though he avoids national politics.

He has come here to Fort McMurray because the aboriginal community needs, desperately, to start talking about economic development and what all this multibillion-dollar oil madness might mean, for good and for bad.

Clarence Louie is chief and CEO of the Osoyoos Band in British Columbia's South Okanagan. He is 44 years old, though he looks like he would have been an infant when he began his remarkable 20-year-run as chief.. He took a band that had been declared bankrupt and taken over by Indian Affairs and he has turned in into an inspiration.

In 2000, the band set a goal of becoming self-sufficient in five years. They're there.

The Osoyoos, 432 strong, own, among other things, a vineyard, a winery, a golf course and a tourist resort, and they are partners in the Baldy Mountain ski development. They have more businesses per capita than any other first nation in Canada.

There are not only enough jobs for everyone, there are so many jobs being created that there are now members of 13 other tribal communities working for the Osoyoos. The little band contributes $40-million a year to the area economy.

Chief Louie is tough. He is as proud of the fact that his band fires its own people as well as hires them. He has his mottos posted throughout the Rez. He believes there is no such thing as consensus, that there will always be those who disagree. And, he says, he is milquetoast compared to his own mother when it comes to how today's lazy aboriginal youth, almost exclusively male, should be dealt with.

Rent a plane, she told him, and fly them all to Iraq. Dump'em off and all the ones who make it back are keepers. Right on, Mom.
The message he has brought here to the Chipewyan, Dene and Cree who live around the oil sands is equally direct: 'Get involved, create jobs and meaningful jobs, not just window dressing for the oil companies.'

'The biggest employer,' he says, 'shouldn't be the band office.'

He also says the time has come to get over it. 'No more whining about 100-year-old failed experiments.' 'No foolishly looking to the Queen to protect rights.'

Louie says aboriginals here and along the Mackenzie Valley should not look at any sharing in development as rocking-chair money but as investment opportunity to create sustainable businesses. He wants them to move beyond entry-level jobs to real jobs they earn all the way to the boardrooms. He wants to see business manners develop: showing up on time, working extra hours. The business lunch, he says, should be drive through, and then right back at it.

'You're going to lose your language and culture faster in poverty than you will in economic development', he says to those who say he is ignoring tradition.

Tough talk, at times shocking talk given the audience, but on this day in this community, they took it and, judging by the response, they loved it.

Eighty per cent like what I have to say, Louie says, twenty per cent don't. I always say to the 20 per cent, 'Get over it.' 'Chances are you're never going to see me again and I'm never going to see you again' 'Get some counseling.'

The first step, he says, is all about leadership. He prides himself on being a stay-home chief who looks after the potholes in his own backyard and wastes no time running around fighting 100-year-old battles.

'The biggest challenge will be how you treat your own people.'

'Blaming government? That time is over.'



Maybe someone should get him to talk to Attawapiskat Chief Theresa Spence.

Sorry for long cut and pastes.
Taken off facebook hope true.
Perhaps the only answer left is from within.

That was the first cut and pasted article I actually read start to finish on here.

[burnt]

That was the first cut and pasted article I actually read start to finish on here.

You're not alone in that.

[furrowtickler]

FSIN needs to follow this mans leadership and common sense .
Something desperately needs to be addressed in this area. Local bands here have lost control .
Also Clarence Louie needs to Council JT and the Liberals ... a lot !!!!

[farmaholic]

Chief Clarence Louie is obviously a racist!

[Bowerpower]

He should run for prime minister. I’d vote for him in a heartbeat

[chuckChuck]

How a B.C. native band went from poverty to prosperity

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-on-business/rob-magazine/clarence-louie-feature/article18913980/

"At the age of 19, Louie attended what is now First Nations University in Regina, then went on to log two years in native studies at the University of Lethbridge. At the age of 23, emboldened by the Red Power movement of the 1970s, he ran successfully for chief.

“It’s the same story all over Canada,” Louie says, sitting in his office beneath portraits of his heroes Muhammad Ali and Nelson Mandela. “They gave the best land to the European newcomers and stuck the Indians back in the bush and gave them bread and water and a Bible.

“As I grew up and studied our history, I became convinced that the remedy to most of our problems was economic development. We needed to close the circle and reclaim the power that we had before white people came along.”

Louie is a great example of what can be done if the circumstances are right. Louie missed the residential schools. He got a chance to get an education at FNU Regina which. But on Agriville there are those who complain about free education for first nations. Will Louie's model work on every reserve, not likely.

This thread was about whether first nation treaties were valid because there is some evidence of migration from Europe. This is irrelevant to the issue.

The treaties are still valid and the First Nations were here first and have a valid claim to share the land and resources.

Improving the lives of first nations people will require an open mind and empathy. On Agriville those qualities are often in short supply.

We created the system that marginalized first nations people and made them dependent. Now it is up to us and them to work together for everyone's success.

[burnt]

Well gee willikers, chucky, aren't you just the most morally superior human to ever frequent these pages? (Well, maybe a tossup between you and grassy or maybe...)

Since you obviously possess complete (self)righteousness, perhaps you'd care to tell us about your personal contribution to setting things right again with the "natives". You must have quite a bit to offer here?

BTW, your "solution" seems to directly contradict Louie's successful approach. How do you account for that? Could it be that your "moral superiority" is what actually prevents dealing practically with the problem?