Anyone following this ?

[Blaithin]

Upset to the point of denying others their Charter rights?

You see the problem that the Charter has created - it enables the picking of winners and losers.

All things allow the picking of winners and losers because everyone's going to apply their own interpretation to it.

Morality - something that changes in all people.

Some people aren't born with a sense of morality, or have a differing sense of morality.

A sociopath lacks a sense of moral responsibility and social conscious. Therefore who's morality do we base anything on. Someone with a moral compass in hyper drive or someone who's is recognized as lacking when compared to others.

Western morality differs from Eastern morality. 20th century morality is greatly different from even 19th century morality.

You could say that we're in a democracy and thus everyone should have the same rights, should always be right and be winners, but that's not ever going to happen. Even in a democracy you're going to have people who feel their morals are the superior ones and therefore the ones to be followed which means the people with differing morals are going to feel like the losers. And even in a democracy the government is going to advance the morals they feel are right which is going to mean some are going to feel wronged or denied.

[tweety]

Upset to the point of denying others their Charter rights?

Not when those rights you claim are being denied are contrary to the charter of rights and freedoms for all Canadians.

Much like priests that felt the charter denied them the the right and freedom to molest children?

[Klause]

Congrats, Trudeau.


You've managed to open up the abortion debate again in a country where it's been settled for two decades.




It's pretty bad when liberal feminists that write for Chatelaine are raising the alarm bells.
http://www.chatelaine.com/opinion/justin-trudeau-pro-choice/ http://www.chatelaine.com/opinion/justin-trudeau-pro-choice/



The problem with blind liberalism... is it's blind and ignorant. As long as government does what we want it's great and we'll gladly make other people give up their rights... never thinking where this will go in the future...


I'd like to know how forcing nuns to attest that they support gays and abortions to get funding for a cherry festival is in any way shape or form in line with the Charter. It isn't. It wouldn't fly anywhere in the Western world.

The fact we even require a debate on this shows the ignorance of some people. Perhaps a plane trip with a one-way ticket to Venezuela, North Korea, Vietnam, or China is in order...

[Klause]

Also on this....


The public healthcare system is expected to pay for abortions...

Yet condoms, IUD's and birth control pills are not only for-profit, but taxed.


Maybe let's make those available to all for free... there'd probably be a lot less abortions.


Keep in mind I'm a very loose Catholic, my wife is an Atheist, and we fully planned our family and used contraceptives till we were "ready" (haha - like you can ever be ready for kids)...

I'm not against abortion, and you'll never find me at a pro or against life rally.


HOWEVER. I cherish freedom, liberty, and personal rights. As such the minute Trudeau attacked those we had a problem.

[Blaithin]

Also on this....


The public healthcare system is expected to pay for abortions...

Yet condoms, IUD's and birth control pills are not only for-profit, but taxed.


Maybe let's make those available to all for free... there'd probably be a lot less abortions.

I do agree with that, completely.

However, condoms being the exception to those three, IUD's, the pill, and I'm nearly 100% sure all other birth control options, are subsidized by the health care system. We do not pay their full cost. At least here in Alberta I don't. While they aren't free, they aren't that expensive either. I don't know their cost in other provinces but I've seen American's say how expensive the pill can be for them and it's not even in the same solar system price wise.

Sadly I don't think making BC options free would make them used that much more. Usually there's other inhibiting factors to using them than the cost. Not to mention the intelligence needed for some is sadly lacking in some people...

[Klause]

I do agree with that, completely.

However, condoms being the exception to those three, IUD's, the pill, and I'm nearly 100% sure all other birth control options, are subsidized by the health care system. We do not pay their full cost. At least here in Alberta I don't. While they aren't free, they aren't that expensive either. I don't know their cost in other provinces but I've seen American's say how expensive the pill can be for them and it's not even in the same solar system price wise.

Sadly I don't think making BC options free would make them used that much more. Usually there's other inhibiting factors to using them than the cost. Not to mention the intelligence needed for some is sadly lacking in some people...

If you don't mind me asking... what do the B/C pills cost in AB?

Darcy's were the no name version and with taxes just over $30 a month... I went on Planned Parenthood's site, and in the USA they are saying $15-$50 which seems about the same? I'm not sure they're subsidized other than better prices are negotiated because they are bought in large amounts.


I Think handing out condoms, or at least having dispensers in high schools, and free meds would help... We know of a few "couples" in college that can't "afford" b/c.

[Blaithin]

If you don't mind me asking... what do the B/C pills cost in AB?

Darcy's were the no name version and with taxes just over $30 a month... I went on Planned Parenthood's site, and in the USA they are saying $15-$50 which seems about the same? I'm not sure they're subsidized other than better prices are negotiated because they are bought in large amounts.


I Think handing out condoms, or at least having dispensers in high schools, and free meds would help... We know of a few "couples" in college that can't "afford" b/c.

Been a while but the pill was about $12-$14 a month depending on the type/brand.

IUD was $80 and good for 5 years so that's pennies.

I'm not sure on cost for things like the Implant or shot. If there's one that isn't covered much/at all I'd guess it to be the diaphragm. Oh and those fertility monitor things, I've never heard of any of them being covered at all.

Honestly if someone is saying they can't afford BC then I don't know how they afford to eat every month LOL

[tweety]

Klause, those rights and freedoms you think you have are not up to you to define, but the charter when it comes to other Canadians.

Just like the wingnut christian parents who felt it was their "right and freedom" to have god cure their diabetic son, who of course died because there is no god, were promptly put in prison.

The charter and law defined the rights of the child, the parents mistakenly thinking they could enforce what they thought were rights and freedoms - exactly what you are saying, were quickly put in check thru imprisonment.

I do not understand why you think your rights are being affected. You can believe anything you want, you just can't force those beliefs - no matter how twisted - upon others.

And that is why this whole thing started. Getting funding to force a summer student to lobby against the charter.

So what rights are you being denied?

Still no one has come up with an alternative then the present checkbox.

[Klause]

Klause, those rights and freedoms you think you have are not up to you to define, but the charter when it comes to other Canadians.

Just like the wingnut christian parents who felt it was their "right and freedom" to have god cure their diabetic son, who of course died because there is no god, were promptly put in prison.

The charter and law defined the rights of the child, the parents mistakenly thinking they could enforce what they thought were rights and freedoms - exactly what you are saying, were quickly put in check thru imprisonment.

I do not understand why you think your rights are being affected. You can believe anything you want, you just can't force those beliefs - no matter how twisted - upon others.

And that is why this whole thing started. Getting funding to force a summer student to lobby against the charter.

So what rights are you being denied?

Still no one has come up with an alternative then the present checkbox.

Huh?


You have an indefensible position... and you're babbling nonsense.


Again, go take a trip to Venezuela.

AND I ask you again, how does removing funding for workers at a cherry festival, or workers at a monastery here in Muenster NOT infringe on religious rights? You are specifically forcing a group of people to attest to something they do not believe in.

Have you ever heard of the Spanish Inquisition?


What's an alternative? NOT OPENING THIS CAN OF WORMS. Do you understand that even liberal, pro-choice women are against this because of its implications for rights and freedoms? Of course not... you think the world should subscribe to your views and only yours... Not how things work.

Now go troll somewhere else please. You've already shown you have no argument to make.

[tweety]

What rights are you being denied?