Bet on the CWB

[CptnObvious]

wiseguy, of course the CWB wanted to pay the farmers, they was us! We elected fellow farmers to the BoD to run our marketing company in our best interests.

[BreadWinner]

The best thing about the CWB gone is all the Lefty sack lickin CWB lovers being out a job. Especially Kyle

[CptnObvious]

FYI I have never worked for the CWB.

[helmsdale]

Good God, if we quit feeding this thread it could suffer the same fate as the CWB itself.

Only one word needed in my mind to justify the demise of the CWB: FREEDOM!

[farming101]

101, the bet was you prove we are better off by $1 or more vs. I prove we have lost billions.
Pretty cheesy of you to demand I prove my case before you bet one nickel.
$.72b lost on the dissolution - no judge ever said the money wasn't gone
This point has nothing to do with wheat
$.75b lost on protein compared to a really bad year - my calculations based on StatsCan and CWB records
Which year?
$6b lost to excess basis in 2 years - bulletproof report by Gray
Richard Gray's report uses the words approximate, estimate, assume, assumption so many times I lost count. It is not based on actual sales records in any way shape or form. I do not completely discount the work. It is valuable for reference.
$1b/yr( approx.) in the last 3 years in basis over the normal $75/t (port price - street price) =
$10.5 billion
Why is the normal difference between Port and elevator pit $75?

I will also add an apology to Cptn. I think my responses to your challenge led you to believe that I thought that farms are making more money without the wheat board. I believe we will never know.
I would never take your wager. It is a fool's errand to waste time trying to figure out whether we have lost or not. Most who wanted out of the marketing structure of the single desk wanted freedom. I think some wanted that freedom even if it meant they would take home less pay.
History is telling us a few things though.
For example:
2013 calendar year was a record for net income.

Cash receipts from all types of field crops continues to rise.

2013-14 saw some of the biggest demands the west has ever placed on railways to move goods. They failed to do what was asked of them. Still, May 2014 was a record that has not yet fallen. That counts for something.

Capn. I see by your comments your still farming. That's the main thing

http://www5.statcan.gc.ca/cansim/a26?lang=eng&retrLang=eng&id=0020001&tabMode=dataT able&p1=-1&p2=9&srchLan=-1 http://www5.statcan.gc.ca/cansim/a26?lang=eng&retrLang=eng&id=0020001&tabMode=dataT able&p1=-1&p2=9&srchLan=-1

http://www5.statcan.gc.ca/cansim/a26?lang=eng&retrLang=eng&id=4040002&tabMode=dataT able&p1=-1&p2=9&srchLan=-1 http://www5.statcan.gc.ca/cansim/a26?lang=eng&retrLang=eng&id=4040002&tabMode=dataT able&p1=-1&p2=9&srchLan=-1

[seldomseen]

How about the numbers from the 50's 60's 70's and 80's ? The CWB never paid any protein any of those years.

We never had computers at that time to see how we were being robbed. You could hardly phone the next town because you could not afford the Sask phone monopoly long distance charges.

I remember delivering feed Barley in the early 80's and the old elevator agent telling me that the pool price was not very good because the board was just moving it to Quebec and you have help the livestock industry out there.


Like i said start your own board jut leave my property alone. With all the extra money you will make you can buy me out .

[farmaholic]

101, being the asshole I am, is it possible to chart wheat only? I assume those charts are the basket of crops grown.

Crucify me.....while singing, "Always look on the bright side of life"! Whistle, whistle whistle, whistle whistle whistle.....

[farming101]

Sure. This misses deferred income which is not recorded as being specific to crop.


These stats are reflective of "movements" as I understand it and are not the same as a shipment from origin to destination.
I'd have to do some comparisons to see how close it is to other reports

[blackpowder]

My unanswered bet unanswered same as yours.
Amazing that Canadian wheat the only bulk commodity that could be shipped in a seller push fashion.
All others seem to need brokers facilitating by the minute changes to vessel orders and destinations. Amazing.
Only able to pick prices in last few years of the regime. Even then uneven arbitrage.
The difference is that today I can control my own inventory unlike anything possible before. Basically like a freeman.
Never again to need permission (denied) to save in peril inventory by moving it.
Since regime gone, every year my wheat inventory mostly priced well in advance of, and delivered within weeks of harvest.
If your terminal empty in Sept, fill the damn thing!

Lie to yourself if you must. But stop publicly lying to the world. Most of the scenarios you expound are either fantasy or down right lies! You are really no different than the post Civil War revisionist writers who tryed to suggest alternate and noble reasons for the war. Like some, who post WW2, tryed watering down the Holocaust!
Similarly, like the people who lived those conflicts, I am insulted and angered by any narrow, selfish, shrew who tells outright lies regarding actual experienced events. I may not have the skills or resources to attempt a point by point counter to your drivel. God knows over the years I have read highly intelligent responses and studies to every thing you still push. I cannot add. But I will never take lying down any earnest attempt at lying about this matter.
Not only are you a lier, but a dictator of the highest order. You would put my business at a disadvantage because of your geographical location or your ineptitude. Your kind had 100 years now to learn how to ship grain. We cant turn back that clock.
Not only are you a selfish lier, but a hypocrite. I'm sure you never grew anything but regime wheat. Where was your hew and cry to put canola or lentils in the regime? Totally new industries built despite the aid of your kind. Just like all the crusher, terminal and service industry investments waiting for the demise. Most of which, either denied by, or made unworkable by darkness blinded trolls like yourself. They seem to have new railcars yet your beloved regime left us with worn out shit for cars.
I have a duty to keep your kind where they belong. God knows theyre rewriting the world enough as it is.
I will call your crap, as I see it, everytime.

[CptnObvious]

101, You think money lost in the dissolution of the Canadian WHEAT Board had nothing to do with wheat? In any case I don't care if they were selling porcupines, the bet is about MONEY.
The loss on protein was in the '12 - '13 year. The average difference between #2, 14.5 and feed was $79/t and never worse than $40. That year based on average/t prices the difference was $3.
Dr. Gray's work is based on actual sales and freight costs. The numbers are accurate, the methodology is sound, and the results have been triple checked by people that really, really want it to be wrong. It is not. Losses due to excess basis were between $6.7 billion if all grain was spot priced and $5 billion if all of it was contracted at least 12 weeks out. In talking to local grain buyers I estimate the average contract length to be 5 weeks which would put losses at about $6 billion. At that huge number you want to quibble about +- 15%?
The normal basis was estimated by Gray in his report at $75. I remember it at $65, so he's close.

" I believe we will never know?" Everything I have presented is directly related to the effect of the CWB. YES!!! We absolutely DO know!

Spike in price in '13 was because of a severe drought in the States. Ritz was freakin' lucky.
First spike was in '08 when the CWB cleared well over $1/bu more than the average American price.
And what's this 'freedom' stuff? Exactly what can I do now that I could not do before?

[farmaholic]

Thank you 101.....still highest numbers after 2012. Production may have helped too. I wasn't expecting that...or did you just make that data up, lol. I would think deferreds would be pretty steady or at least relative year by year.



BP, in Sask we're supposed to call the controlled burn hotline when we want to burn something, did you phone that burn in?

[Integrity_Farmer]

Ahhh the three stooges....

Moe ended up leading the Sask party. Are you Curly or Larry perhaps?

[CptnObvious]

blackpowder, firstly learn how to spell and to string a coherent sentence together, and secondly exactly what is it that you think I lied about?

[farming101]

These costs were during the CWB years You will note that the trend is up. It is from the Grain Commission report. Thanks for looking

[farming101]

Dr. Gray's report is not based on actual sales.