Arable Food for Thought

[bucket]

It won't until someone ...sorry some big business. ....can figure a way to charge the shit out of primary producers for special blends.....

[sumdumguy]

Blaithin, it appears as though youare leaning toward Milpa farmingthat was practiced in the Yucatan Peninsula. Historically they plant in a hole, a bean or pea for nitrogen to feed a corn plant that in turn provided shade for a melon. A complete system, Interesting!

[grassfarmer]

Mixed farming is another concept that seems good in theory but is unworkable in practice. In central to northern AB there are only 50 days of good weather per year and both cattle and grain enterprises compete for the same time. All cattle producers here have pushed calving latter to get out of the harsh weather but that means the seeding equipment is not ready on time. A strait grain farm with a pulse rotation and a heated shop to do off season maintenance does work. Now that interest rates are not zero, can't trade equipment nearly as often. Another issue is manure. It is a disposal headache as it costs more in labor and fuel to move it to where it can do good than the nutrients are worth most of the time which is because it is not a great source of N. I think a plant based diet with animal products as more of a luxury item is more efficient.

I think there are solutions to these problems but they are not going to come from conventional thinking. Instead of owning cows maybe some farmers would be in a position to incorporate some alfalfa in their rotations, hay it, then bale graze with a ranchers cows over winter on a custom basis? Transferring the workload with the cows to the winter period when the farmer might have more time, getting the benefit of a break in rotation and returning the nutrients back to the soil in places where they are most needed with no mechanical manure hauling (or cattle ownership risk) involved. Late fall grazing of cover crops could be harvested by custom cows too.

It won't until someone ...sorry some big business. ....can figure a way to charge the shit out of primary producers for special blends.....

You're behind the times bucket - happened about 3 years ago. Plenty small businesses trying to "help other farmers" by selling them special blends in the $60-$70 range. Many of the young pioneering producers I know have tried these systems and moved on. I think they have merit but we need to have a better understanding of the complexities.

[farmaholic]

A big part of Western Canada is semi-arid, sometimes just enough moisture to support an annual crop let alone a cover crop that will use limited soil moisture up until the cover crop dies weeks after the annual crop is harvested. But imagine the drying benefits of areas or years when moisture was "surplus". It likely has a lot of merit when and where justified.

I think biological soil amendments will be a big thing in the future.

(Trying to offset the negative waves with positive ones)

[grassfarmer]

Two very good points Farmaholic.

[furrowtickler]

Your right about the soil biological amendments . That and herbicide / disease resistance that is marching across western canada is concerning.

[blackpowder]

Listened to a researcher the other day re biologics etc.
Micro nutrient availability (ph factors, S availability etc) aids or hinders conditions in the microryhzae (dont care how its spelled). Kind of a hand in hand thing.
One instance they were studying bacteria that countered salinity for some plants like wheat or peas.
Remember its a bacteria that grabs or breaks down N and everything else.

Now consider this company having difficulty with regulating.
Europe calls it a fert. We call it a herbicide. Years for any approval. Years behind in research.

Now i know everything needs rain and theres no money in wheat. Just wondering that if someday an eye toward soil capacity in all its functions wouldnt hurt.

[tubs]

Very interesting topic I am also investigating some different option as monoculture as that what Iam doing now. I believe the whole industry is not interested in this concept because they can not make money in that system. The problems I see with polyculture is weed control and timing of harvests. Our system we have now is giving 50 percent of our revenue to multinationals would be way better if can keep some of that. We also have to look at our nutrients in that kernel of grain. What we are doing now is going to hit a brick wall years from now our soils are not working properly now we get wet solutions tracks on tractors our forfathers just had little 2 wheel drive tractors look what the crops were like when the prairies were just broke up. At the same time I do not believe organic is the way to go, probably somewhere in the middle

[Hopalong]

Not saying it won’t happen here but think drawbacks mentioned have to be overcome.

[grassfarmer]

Was at a presentation in Winnipeg a while back by someone who proves that organic can work. Organic farmer consistently producing 20% above local area crop insurance yields with a wheat/pea/alfalfa/livestock rotation. Soil amendments using the Albrecht method - can cost anywhere from $500-800 to get the soil functioning properly - main amendments were wood ash and calcium. Sounds a lot of money but maybe cheap compared to buying more land? Quoted a 55bu wheat crop that sold for $18 picked up/$990 acre! Buyers 1200kms away call him wondering if he has any wheat for them.

[ajl]

Expanding a rotation through trading land with a rancher does have potential, but finding a ranchers that pays is less likely than finding a unicorn. Most ranchers are of the free feed=cow profitability mentality. Organic production consistent over conventional is occasionally possible when all the circumstances alaign but consistently over time does not happen no matter how much we would like to believe it to be true because every crop export so much N, P, K and S and it has to be supplied somehow. There was a case of 130 bu organic oats off a field in the area last year. I believe it was likely close to true but the field was close to the barn of an former dairy farm and was summer fallowed the year before by tillage boosting N mineralization. I doubt this result can ever be repeated. What was the source of N in the organic example cited?

[Sheepwheat]

Interesting topic indeed. Just because most farm like lemmings, following each other, and not trying new things, does not mean doing things different does not work. I talked to a guy this year, who has some land he has not used n fertilizer on for 9 years, yet has produced solid crops annually off this land. Thinking outside the typical box is exhilarating for me, personally. Doing things that ppl say is impossible, drives me. Whether that is farming “strangely”, or farming far less acres than supposedly possible, it is plain fun.

There are so many ways to farm. Most simply do not get that. There are ways to make a living on 20 acres if you want to. One of the things I am looking at, is garlic production. Garlic in rows, cover crops between. Graze the sheep for Weed control. In my honest opinion, one of the things that hold back innovation, is the massive transfer of wealth that has occurred. If you are well set up, there is no to little reason to try new things. Growing soybeans on a few acres is not innovation. Going nine years with no need for nitrogen, is. Generation after generation just stays the course, and makes for boring, corner to corner, grain agriculture. I think that is a shame.

Takes a bit to get a different mindset, but once you do, the whole world changes. Railway backlogs mean nothing, when yOu grow crops that Canada must import, for example. When you make your own nitrogen for nine years, you come to realize you do not need the parasites to survive. Government policy or lack of it, is actually kind of comical when you do not need to rely on it, but learn to rely on yourself!

Of course it can be done. Mixed farming can be done. You just need to know the right ppl. Ppl who encourage, not dissuade you.