North Dakota Wheat Whiners

[rain]

You have to love American Subsidy rhetoric. According to North Dakota Wheat Commission. The 85 million dollar shortfall in the CWB pool will add up to .24/bushel. This from a bunch of people who regularly wallow in the subsidy trough to the tune of $.52/bushel in direct payments. It is amazing these people can look in the mirror after spouting their drivel.

[Incognito]

“No man qualifies as a statesman who is entirely ignorant on the problems of wheat.”
- Socrates

[melvill]

Now that's what I like to hear - the Greek philosophers wading into the Canada-US wheat debate!

Charlie or tom4cwb, can trump that one?

[AdamSmith]

Rain,

Say what you will about American subsidies, but at least they are open and generous with them. When they subsidize a farmer directly, they defend that policy as being in their own farmers interests and the taxpayers are well notified. When they use export subsidies, it’s all done out in the open and the entire world can see what they are up to.

But on the CWB deficit coverage by the feds, the Americans have every right to complain. Just as every Canadian taxpayer has a right to complain. When Americans subsidize, it’s deliberate, transparent and part of an overall five year farm bill. But this CWB/Government of Canada export subsidy came about because of poor management, bad decisions, and bad policy. To put it more bluntly this subsidy was an unintended subsidy which the feds never budgeted for and the taxpayers had not been told they were going to have to cover.

To my way of thinking the Government of Canada and the Canadian taxpayers are the ones who should truly be outraged by this.

[TOM4CWB]

Melville;

Since it is Christmas, I thought a few quotes might be in order...

"Mathew 5 25“Make friends quickly with your opponent at law while you are with him on the way, so that your opponent may not hand you over to the judge, and the judge to the officer, and you be thrown into prison. 26“Truly I say to you, you will not come out of there until you have paid up the last cent."

AND

Matthew 7 1“Do not judge so that you will not be judged. 2“For in the way you judge, you will be judged; and by your standard of measure, it will be measured to you. 3“Why do you look at the speck that is in your brother’s eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye? 4“Or how can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ and behold, the log is in your own eye?"

By the way I found the incognito quote on http://www.wheatworld.org/pdf/WheatFacts.pdf

Just for interest sake this was part of the article;

"For every one pound loaf of bread sold, wheat farmers received less than 5 cents. The average American farmer made about $1700 from farming and government support in 2002 -- or about 82 cents per hour for a 40 hour week. This harsh reality forces most farmers to rely on non-farming income to support their households"

I believe we need to work together as North American wheat farmers, not point fingers at each other.

The CWB has done a superb job of keeping US and Canadian wheat farmers from working together to solve our common marketing problems... which is a sad comentary on constructive co-operation and building a stronger wheat industry in North America!

[rain]

The problem as I see it is the North Dakota Wheat Whiners are unhappy with what they figure is a $.24/bushel subisdy while they receive $.52/bushel right off the bat. The self righteous drivel put forward by the Yanks is very gaulling. Canadian tax payers have a right to be upset special interest groups in the US should have a closer look at what is going on at home.

I am fed up with American special interest groups calling for changes in trading practices put forward by there trading partners. Yet continue to demand and expect huge government support programs.

[ianben]

It not just a North American problem is it.
Which came first the whining farmers who are unwilling or unable to co-operate or the government ideas/plans boards/subsidies which are supposed to help us.
To the farmer it always seems greener on the other side but can any government plan deliver a demand driven supply of wholesome food regardless of weather and other disasters BSE for example?
On the other hand how are farmers going to do this by just co-operating?
Would not some form of regulation or compulsion be necessary?
Do you think you can find ten farmers who will agree?

[wbrower]

Never mind the two bit Canadian Subsidy or the Half Dollar U.S subsidy, what I have a a hard time undersatanding is why Canadian Wheat Farmers along the 49th paralell continue to allow the CWB to short them by $1.00 Can. per bushel. Those folks with the CWB in Winnipeg must live awfully high compared to the Grain Companies along the High Line in the US. $1.00 Can less that that the Canadian Wheat Board with their legislated monopoly pays Canadian farmers than Grain Companies pay US farmers along the High Line is just a little to much for Canadian Farmers to tolerate. Frankly I don't blame farmers in North Dakota for being upset with the CWB dumping Canadian Wheat to users there. The people who need to wake up are the Canadian Farmers who take a Canadian Dollar less from the Board so the Board can fire sale the wheat we grow around the world.

[rain]

Guys you all are missing something just because the PRO generally looks less then the US prices it does not mean the CWB is dumping it. The PRO means nothing it is a number thrown out to make all of us feel better or worse depending on the day.

[Incognito]

Then does the true meaning of the Pool Return Outlook (PRO) =

Psychological Relativity Oscillator

Maybe thats why Canadian wheat charts don't work!!!

[wbrower]

rain, I wasn't refering to PRO's, I was refering to real dollars in real time. It seems to me last year the CWB put out a PRO for wheat it rang up a deficit. The canadian dollar less that the CWB pays western Canadian farmers comes from my own investigations and was reinforced by a member of the Alberta Grain Commission on this web site last week who had recently returned from a Grain Growers convention in Montana. I still can not believe that there are still people engaged in farming in western Canada that will stand by and let a government agency marginalize themselves personally and the business that they are in by taking $1.00 Canadian less, final payment in your language, than US Grain companies pay Us Farmers Upfront when they deliver the product.

[rain]

wbrower

The CWB is crap? My point is and for a lot of anti-CWB folk at Agriville. They are so anti CWB they miss the fact that as much as our CWB blows. US farm subsidies are not going away any time soon. If my numbers are correct any wheat or flour from the US should have some sort of tarriff on it to offset their subsidies. US corn should be slapped with a $.32/bushel US countervail, wheat if any come up here a $.52/bushel US.

For those of you out there that are so naive to think that if the CWB was to go the way of the Dinosaur that the US would look at Canadian ag products with open arms, would make me think most of you are smoking something that is not quite as illegal as it used to be.

I beleive that you have been short changed by the CWB.

Canada has to get tough with the US as far as trade goes. Take off your farmer hats boys and put your business hats on.