North Dakota Wheat Whiners

[wbrower]

rain, I wasn't refering to PRO's, I was refering to real dollars in real time. It seems to me last year the CWB put out a PRO for wheat it rang up a deficit. The canadian dollar less that the CWB pays western Canadian farmers comes from my own investigations and was reinforced by a member of the Alberta Grain Commission on this web site last week who had recently returned from a Grain Growers convention in Montana. I still can not believe that there are still people engaged in farming in western Canada that will stand by and let a government agency marginalize themselves personally and the business that they are in by taking $1.00 Canadian less, final payment in your language, than US Grain companies pay Us Farmers Upfront when they deliver the product.

[rain]

wbrower

The CWB is crap? My point is and for a lot of anti-CWB folk at Agriville. They are so anti CWB they miss the fact that as much as our CWB blows. US farm subsidies are not going away any time soon. If my numbers are correct any wheat or flour from the US should have some sort of tarriff on it to offset their subsidies. US corn should be slapped with a $.32/bushel US countervail, wheat if any come up here a $.52/bushel US.

For those of you out there that are so naive to think that if the CWB was to go the way of the Dinosaur that the US would look at Canadian ag products with open arms, would make me think most of you are smoking something that is not quite as illegal as it used to be.

I beleive that you have been short changed by the CWB.

Canada has to get tough with the US as far as trade goes. Take off your farmer hats boys and put your business hats on.

[AdamSmith]

Rain,

Last time I checked Canola travels freely both ways across the border. Velva ND has been buying Canadian Canola ever since they began crushing canola. No trade action, no nasty news releases, just simple honest trade.

You say Canada needs to "get tough with the Americans". That's a laugh. What exactly do you propose we get tough with? The U.S. could build a Berlin type wall the entire distance of the 49th parallel and the economic ramifications would be hardly noticeable to them. Yet it would make Canada into another Russia.

The Americans will always get what they want. 12 Aircraft Carrier battle groups can do that for a country you know.

Are the Americans hypocrites? Absolutely.
But those hypocrites just happen to be Canada's meal ticket and if you believe something else you’re the one smoking something funny.

[Incognito]

Getting tough with the Americans is getting bigger kneepads.

Poutine did not learn that and it cost us dearly.

The Ontario Premier learned that he was not popular last weke when he got bumped to ring the bell at the NYSE for the Chinese Premier - Wen.

Get tough with the Americans? With what - our Sea Kings? Aniquated F18's?

[TOM4CWB]

Rain;

Denial is not just a river in Egypt, it is alive and well at the CWB...

Did you see this Dec 19th Press release?

"2003 CWB news releases
December 19, 2003

NDWC charges completely hypocritical

Winnipeg – The farmers of Western Canada operate in a commercial environment and the government guarantee on CWB payments is not an export subsidy. The CWB reaffirmed both these facts today in response to allegations made by the North Dakota Wheat Commission (NDWC).

"These charges demonstrate the hypocrisy of the NDWC," said Ken Ritter, chairman of the CWB's board of directors, who farms near Kindersley, Saskatchewan. "They denounce the potential trade-distorting effects of an $85.4 million deficit in the wheat pool, the first in 12 years, when the U.S. government has paid out $3.7 billion in marketing loans and deficiency payments to wheat farmers in that country over the past five years alone."

U.S. government subsidies on wheat production, in the form of loan deficiency and other payments, have averaged $740 million per year. On the other hand, the shortfall in the CWB's 2002-03 wheat pool is the first time since 1990-91 that a deficit has been incurred.

"As we have stated on many occasions in the past, this is plainly a case of the pot calling the kettle black," said Ritter.

The CWB's response to the NDWC's allegations is supported by an independent study released in early 2003 by the Minneapolis-based Institute for Agriculture and Trade Policy that documented how U.S. wheat was being dumped in the international market at values that were 40 per cent less than the cost of production. Furthermore, information from U.S. sources, namely the Environmental Working Group and National Ag Stats Service, indicate that, over the past five years, direct government payments to North Dakota wheat producers alone have totaled $1.8 billion or roughly $1.30 per bushel.

Ritter also firmly rejected NDWC accusations that the CWB had artificially inflated its Pool Return Outlook (PRO) for wheat in the fall of 2002 in order to attract votes for pro-single desk candidates in the CWB director elections.

"The CWB board of directors is offended by these comments", said Ritter. "The director election process has absolutely nothing to do with how the CWB sets its PRO and when it recommends adjustments to initial payments. These are based on market conditions as well as price and foreign exchange forecasts. Anyone looking objectively at events in the fall of 2002 would see that both our PRO and our payments to farmers were justified at the time."

The NDWC's comments and its refusal to consider the facts in this matter demonstrate again how poorly the western Canadian system of selling wheat and barley is understood by certain parties in the U.S. wheat industry. The CWB is committed to greater dialogue with its counterparts in the United States. In the meantime, however, the CWB will continue to fight to remove the unfair tariffs that have been imposed by the American administration on spring wheat and to re-establish full access to the U.S. wheat market.

Controlled by western Canadian farmers, the CWB is the largest wheat and barley marketer in the world. As one of Canada's biggest exporters, the Winnipeg-based company sells grain to more than 70 countries and returns all sales revenue, less marketing costs, to Prairie farmers.

For more information, please contact:
Rhéal Cenerini
Communications consultant
Winnipeg, MB
tel: (204) 983-4497"

Until the CWB does become "commercial" and "responsible" for actions and decisions it makes... we are certianly open to critics everywhere about CWB politics and poor marketing performance.

Chairman Ritter denying our problems... does not change either the international perception or reality of us running our wheat marketing agency like a third rate banana republic!

JUST how much does this cost us a tonne on wheat sales?

[rain]

Once the CWB disappears I shutter to think what would happen with trade if some of the people responding to this thread where in control.

You guys will fight like hell to make changes here in Canada but it does not look like many of you would fight that hard once you got rid of the CWB.

Canola and oats trade with little fan fare that is true. Tom/Adam what do you think about the $.52/bushelf for wheat and $.30/bushel for corn? Or is all you two can fight is the CWB.

[rain]

sorry thats $.24/bushel corn

[AdamSmith]

Rain,

I'm a lover, not a fighter.

As long as people stay out of way of course. The CWB Act prevents me from making the choices I would otherwise freely choose to make. So I fight until they get out of my way.

American domestic subsidies are a red herring.

If Uncle Sam cut off the gravy train to their farmers they would have to make up the shortfall somewhere. That somewhere is with increased production and prices may actually fall if Uncle Sam stopped giving those guys welfare checks.

Export subsidies and all government interventions in the free market is the major culprit to better agricultural prosperity.

By the way Canadian pressure will never bring about lower American domestic subsidies. The only thing that will influence that event is U.S. domestic pressure from the urban non farm population.

[TOM4CWB]

Rain;

I am getting a massive payout on my CWRS, CPS and CWRW from the SPE... true enough it cost a premium, but still the same it is a gov. backed program that no private insurer could provide.

CWRS (HP) - $1.14/bu payment on covered production

CPS - $1.44/bu
CWRW - $1.41/bu

This will make my farm very comptitive with any US wheat farmer... I invested a fair premium, and now am rewarded by dismal CWB marketing performance...

I would rather get my total income from the market, as I am sure the average Alberta taxpayer would prefer as well.

All we are asking for is our basic human right that is given to us under international law, the right to sell our property to whom we want to associate with (be it the CWB or whoever), is this so wrong Rain?

[rain]

Adam and Tom.

Is what you are saying is that the only thing that matters is doing away with the CWB?