North Dakota Wheat Whiners

[rain]

You have to love American Subsidy rhetoric. According to North Dakota Wheat Commission. The 85 million dollar shortfall in the CWB pool will add up to .24/bushel. This from a bunch of people who regularly wallow in the subsidy trough to the tune of $.52/bushel in direct payments. It is amazing these people can look in the mirror after spouting their drivel.

[Incognito]

“No man qualifies as a statesman who is entirely ignorant on the problems of wheat.”
- Socrates

[melvill]

Now that's what I like to hear - the Greek philosophers wading into the Canada-US wheat debate!

Charlie or tom4cwb, can trump that one?

[AdamSmith]

Rain,

Say what you will about American subsidies, but at least they are open and generous with them. When they subsidize a farmer directly, they defend that policy as being in their own farmers interests and the taxpayers are well notified. When they use export subsidies, it’s all done out in the open and the entire world can see what they are up to.

But on the CWB deficit coverage by the feds, the Americans have every right to complain. Just as every Canadian taxpayer has a right to complain. When Americans subsidize, it’s deliberate, transparent and part of an overall five year farm bill. But this CWB/Government of Canada export subsidy came about because of poor management, bad decisions, and bad policy. To put it more bluntly this subsidy was an unintended subsidy which the feds never budgeted for and the taxpayers had not been told they were going to have to cover.

To my way of thinking the Government of Canada and the Canadian taxpayers are the ones who should truly be outraged by this.

[TOM4CWB]

Melville;

Since it is Christmas, I thought a few quotes might be in order...

"Mathew 5 25“Make friends quickly with your opponent at law while you are with him on the way, so that your opponent may not hand you over to the judge, and the judge to the officer, and you be thrown into prison. 26“Truly I say to you, you will not come out of there until you have paid up the last cent."

AND

Matthew 7 1“Do not judge so that you will not be judged. 2“For in the way you judge, you will be judged; and by your standard of measure, it will be measured to you. 3“Why do you look at the speck that is in your brother’s eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye? 4“Or how can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ and behold, the log is in your own eye?"

By the way I found the incognito quote on http://www.wheatworld.org/pdf/WheatFacts.pdf

Just for interest sake this was part of the article;

"For every one pound loaf of bread sold, wheat farmers received less than 5 cents. The average American farmer made about $1700 from farming and government support in 2002 -- or about 82 cents per hour for a 40 hour week. This harsh reality forces most farmers to rely on non-farming income to support their households"

I believe we need to work together as North American wheat farmers, not point fingers at each other.

The CWB has done a superb job of keeping US and Canadian wheat farmers from working together to solve our common marketing problems... which is a sad comentary on constructive co-operation and building a stronger wheat industry in North America!

[rain]

The problem as I see it is the North Dakota Wheat Whiners are unhappy with what they figure is a $.24/bushel subisdy while they receive $.52/bushel right off the bat. The self righteous drivel put forward by the Yanks is very gaulling. Canadian tax payers have a right to be upset special interest groups in the US should have a closer look at what is going on at home.

I am fed up with American special interest groups calling for changes in trading practices put forward by there trading partners. Yet continue to demand and expect huge government support programs.

[ianben]

It not just a North American problem is it.
Which came first the whining farmers who are unwilling or unable to co-operate or the government ideas/plans boards/subsidies which are supposed to help us.
To the farmer it always seems greener on the other side but can any government plan deliver a demand driven supply of wholesome food regardless of weather and other disasters BSE for example?
On the other hand how are farmers going to do this by just co-operating?
Would not some form of regulation or compulsion be necessary?
Do you think you can find ten farmers who will agree?

[wbrower]

Never mind the two bit Canadian Subsidy or the Half Dollar U.S subsidy, what I have a a hard time undersatanding is why Canadian Wheat Farmers along the 49th paralell continue to allow the CWB to short them by $1.00 Can. per bushel. Those folks with the CWB in Winnipeg must live awfully high compared to the Grain Companies along the High Line in the US. $1.00 Can less that that the Canadian Wheat Board with their legislated monopoly pays Canadian farmers than Grain Companies pay US farmers along the High Line is just a little to much for Canadian Farmers to tolerate. Frankly I don't blame farmers in North Dakota for being upset with the CWB dumping Canadian Wheat to users there. The people who need to wake up are the Canadian Farmers who take a Canadian Dollar less from the Board so the Board can fire sale the wheat we grow around the world.

[rain]

Guys you all are missing something just because the PRO generally looks less then the US prices it does not mean the CWB is dumping it. The PRO means nothing it is a number thrown out to make all of us feel better or worse depending on the day.

[Incognito]

Then does the true meaning of the Pool Return Outlook (PRO) =

Psychological Relativity Oscillator

Maybe thats why Canadian wheat charts don't work!!!

[wbrower]

rain, I wasn't refering to PRO's, I was refering to real dollars in real time. It seems to me last year the CWB put out a PRO for wheat it rang up a deficit. The canadian dollar less that the CWB pays western Canadian farmers comes from my own investigations and was reinforced by a member of the Alberta Grain Commission on this web site last week who had recently returned from a Grain Growers convention in Montana. I still can not believe that there are still people engaged in farming in western Canada that will stand by and let a government agency marginalize themselves personally and the business that they are in by taking $1.00 Canadian less, final payment in your language, than US Grain companies pay Us Farmers Upfront when they deliver the product.

[rain]

wbrower

The CWB is crap? My point is and for a lot of anti-CWB folk at Agriville. They are so anti CWB they miss the fact that as much as our CWB blows. US farm subsidies are not going away any time soon. If my numbers are correct any wheat or flour from the US should have some sort of tarriff on it to offset their subsidies. US corn should be slapped with a $.32/bushel US countervail, wheat if any come up here a $.52/bushel US.

For those of you out there that are so naive to think that if the CWB was to go the way of the Dinosaur that the US would look at Canadian ag products with open arms, would make me think most of you are smoking something that is not quite as illegal as it used to be.

I beleive that you have been short changed by the CWB.

Canada has to get tough with the US as far as trade goes. Take off your farmer hats boys and put your business hats on.

[AdamSmith]

Rain,

Last time I checked Canola travels freely both ways across the border. Velva ND has been buying Canadian Canola ever since they began crushing canola. No trade action, no nasty news releases, just simple honest trade.

You say Canada needs to "get tough with the Americans". That's a laugh. What exactly do you propose we get tough with? The U.S. could build a Berlin type wall the entire distance of the 49th parallel and the economic ramifications would be hardly noticeable to them. Yet it would make Canada into another Russia.

The Americans will always get what they want. 12 Aircraft Carrier battle groups can do that for a country you know.

Are the Americans hypocrites? Absolutely.
But those hypocrites just happen to be Canada's meal ticket and if you believe something else you’re the one smoking something funny.

[Incognito]

Getting tough with the Americans is getting bigger kneepads.

Poutine did not learn that and it cost us dearly.

The Ontario Premier learned that he was not popular last weke when he got bumped to ring the bell at the NYSE for the Chinese Premier - Wen.

Get tough with the Americans? With what - our Sea Kings? Aniquated F18's?

[TOM4CWB]

Rain;

Denial is not just a river in Egypt, it is alive and well at the CWB...

Did you see this Dec 19th Press release?

"2003 CWB news releases
December 19, 2003

NDWC charges completely hypocritical

Winnipeg – The farmers of Western Canada operate in a commercial environment and the government guarantee on CWB payments is not an export subsidy. The CWB reaffirmed both these facts today in response to allegations made by the North Dakota Wheat Commission (NDWC).

"These charges demonstrate the hypocrisy of the NDWC," said Ken Ritter, chairman of the CWB's board of directors, who farms near Kindersley, Saskatchewan. "They denounce the potential trade-distorting effects of an $85.4 million deficit in the wheat pool, the first in 12 years, when the U.S. government has paid out $3.7 billion in marketing loans and deficiency payments to wheat farmers in that country over the past five years alone."

U.S. government subsidies on wheat production, in the form of loan deficiency and other payments, have averaged $740 million per year. On the other hand, the shortfall in the CWB's 2002-03 wheat pool is the first time since 1990-91 that a deficit has been incurred.

"As we have stated on many occasions in the past, this is plainly a case of the pot calling the kettle black," said Ritter.

The CWB's response to the NDWC's allegations is supported by an independent study released in early 2003 by the Minneapolis-based Institute for Agriculture and Trade Policy that documented how U.S. wheat was being dumped in the international market at values that were 40 per cent less than the cost of production. Furthermore, information from U.S. sources, namely the Environmental Working Group and National Ag Stats Service, indicate that, over the past five years, direct government payments to North Dakota wheat producers alone have totaled $1.8 billion or roughly $1.30 per bushel.

Ritter also firmly rejected NDWC accusations that the CWB had artificially inflated its Pool Return Outlook (PRO) for wheat in the fall of 2002 in order to attract votes for pro-single desk candidates in the CWB director elections.

"The CWB board of directors is offended by these comments", said Ritter. "The director election process has absolutely nothing to do with how the CWB sets its PRO and when it recommends adjustments to initial payments. These are based on market conditions as well as price and foreign exchange forecasts. Anyone looking objectively at events in the fall of 2002 would see that both our PRO and our payments to farmers were justified at the time."

The NDWC's comments and its refusal to consider the facts in this matter demonstrate again how poorly the western Canadian system of selling wheat and barley is understood by certain parties in the U.S. wheat industry. The CWB is committed to greater dialogue with its counterparts in the United States. In the meantime, however, the CWB will continue to fight to remove the unfair tariffs that have been imposed by the American administration on spring wheat and to re-establish full access to the U.S. wheat market.

Controlled by western Canadian farmers, the CWB is the largest wheat and barley marketer in the world. As one of Canada's biggest exporters, the Winnipeg-based company sells grain to more than 70 countries and returns all sales revenue, less marketing costs, to Prairie farmers.

For more information, please contact:
Rhéal Cenerini
Communications consultant
Winnipeg, MB
tel: (204) 983-4497"

Until the CWB does become "commercial" and "responsible" for actions and decisions it makes... we are certianly open to critics everywhere about CWB politics and poor marketing performance.

Chairman Ritter denying our problems... does not change either the international perception or reality of us running our wheat marketing agency like a third rate banana republic!

JUST how much does this cost us a tonne on wheat sales?