Right to repair farm equipment debate.

[dak7]

It looks like there is a movement in some of the states to develop some rules around the right to repair machinery. Any thoughts on what makes sense?

[oneoff]

At the present time it would appear that battle is just about lost. Part of the credit goes to those who "don't have the time"; aren't inclined and never had any experience or interest in pulling wrenches. Even bigger compounding problem is that we don't seem to have the right to access to required software and interfaces and even the training and service manuals.

A side effect is we are all but depoendent on fickle computers and electrical connections that are problematic...particular with advancing age and poor environmental conditions.

Get used to paying whatever it takes according to the few technicians that will be seen as first and only responders to bringing down equipment back to life. No other Plan B's available except purchasing even more complicated equipment that is even more dependent on factory trained technicians.

Or maybe some Russian Versatile tractor or third world manufacturer...if the governments don't bar importation on grounds of failure to meet some EPA type standard. Which already happens.

[Klause]

At the present time it would appear that battle is just about lost. Part of the credit goes to those who "don't have the time"; aren't inclined and never had any experience or interest in pulling wrenches. Even bigger compounding problem is that we don't seem to have the right to access to required software and interfaces and even the training and service manuals.

A side effect is we are all but depoendent on fickle computers and electrical connections that are problematic...particular with advancing age and poor environmental conditions.

Get used to paying whatever it takes according to the few technicians that will be seen as first and only responders to bringing down equipment back to life. No other Plan B's available except purchasing even more complicated equipment that is even more dependent on factory trained technicians.

Or maybe some Russian Versatile tractor or third world manufacturer...if the governments don't bar importation on grounds of failure to meet some EPA type standard. Which already happens.

Software is easy to fix. Especially new equipment where you can trace and probe everything on a bus.


Right to repair is getting passed in many states... And Deere is making service advisor available to people who buy their equipment.

[oneoff]

Software is easy to fix.

Please explain...remembering that the foodchain has a strong tendency to believe and enforce the premise that at best the owner of the hardware is granted a limited licence to use te initial software...and certainly should be prepared to pay a hefty price for any upgrade that the manufacturer may come up with.

I don't know one person who has this expertise, and have found that very few are willing to share all their secrets that make software an easy fix.

[oneoff]

Klause...don't you agree that the endgame is "big data". Everything... position, status, real time collection of every imaginable parameter; output, operator actions, machine reaction etc.etc all sent via cell or satellite link to a processing center and corrective actions resent back to the input machine. Repairs dispatched; fixes performed "flawlessly"

The owner all but an unecessary link. Autonomous; interconnected under computer control from half a continent away..

[blackpowder]

I dont have any answers. I do think it is an important issue.
Consider the planned obsolescence manufacturers are pulling off on some fairly recent equipment.
The law says parts for 10 years.
I know there are transmission parts you can no longer get for certain 2000 ish year model tractors.
More than one aspect of farm machinery needs watchdog legislation I believe.
Who cares when times good. But we all might care someday.

[workboots]

Do you think they have ag tech support over in the Ukraine. If you look hard enough you can find these tools. It would be amazing is someone Made a youtube channel for teaching this stuff.

If john deere ever came after you, make it public and they would scurry away, back into the dark corporate badger hole

farmers need to push back more rather then continuing to following that Carrot on a string.

[oneoff]

OK I'll bite. Show me the working DEF delete for Agco equipment with European SISU 7 cylinder engines. Not interested if there is an associated list of side effects that sound worse than the underlying disease itself.

They say its available; but anyone else just not willing to be the guinea pig for Western Canadian testing.

[AlbertaFarmer5]

We all have tge right to refuse to buy equipment with such restrictions placed on it. But evidently, those who buy new do not exercise this right. Probably has a lot to do with the fact that the producers who buy new aren't generally the ones dealing with the repair headaches. It is the subsequent owners who get no input into what ends up available used.

[Klause]

Klause...don't you agree that the endgame is "big data". Everything... position, status, real time collection of every imaginable parameter; output, operator actions, machine reaction etc.etc all sent via cell or satellite link to a processing center and corrective actions resent back to the input machine. Repairs dispatched; fixes performed "flawlessly"

The owner all but an unecessary link. Autonomous; interconnected under computer control from half a continent away..

Umm... I think you have a confusion of what Big data is.


Big data isn't to run farms, or equipment... It's for markets and the actors in the market on both ends (inputs and final product) to know what's going on on the farm.


There will always be a place for the idiots (us) to take all the risk, pay all the bills (go get another job to do it if you have to)... to make everyone else in the chain more money.

Without the primary producer it all collapses... so no, the end game isn't to supersede the farmer, it's to extract the absolute maximum out of him.

[Klause]

Software is easy to fix.

Please explain...remembering that the foodchain has a strong tendency to believe and enforce the premise that at best the owner of the hardware is granted a limited licence to use te initial software...and certainly should be prepared to pay a hefty price for any upgrade that the manufacturer may come up with.

I don't know one person who has this expertise, and have found that very few are willing to share all their secrets that make software an easy fix.

As I said, through right to repair legislation, you have access to the same stuff the dealers do.

Every sensor electric component, switch, etc. is all wired into the same bus system... It's why you can use the wires going to the radio on your pickup to set the cruise. Once you have an electronics understanding, and an understanding of how the buss is constructed, and how the addresses are setup, it's nothing to completely take over a machine, or diagnose it.

Look on youtube at the guys self-driving Fendt tractors with an Arduino board.


As far as your emissions request... I'm pretty sure that's already been done...