Solar activity crashes

[Oliver88]

Brrrrrr.....global warming shouldn’t be a concern in Edmonton now.



Update: 167

In other climate alarmist news:

When Al Gore was born there were 7,000 polar bears alive.
Of those 7,000, only 30,000 are alive today. That is right - 30,000.

[dmlfarmer]

Dmlfarmer, I'm on my phone but I have a spare minute so I will try to give the CliffsNotes version. No time for references or fact checking So feel free to do your own research and prove me wrong if possible.

As the warmists keep telling us, the ocean is a giant heat sink, Water takes a lot of energy to heat or cool, Which is why ocean temperature lags Atmospheric temperatures especially Over land by decades. So those of us in the middle of a continent will Detect a measurable change long before The oceans do. If you look up the predominant ocean currents which bring warm tropical water to the North Atlantic, And the amount of heat energy they move To the northern latitudes, And the time scales they function on, You would probably come to the conclusion that temperatures around the Arctic Which just so happens to be almost all ocean, To be partially out of phase with sun cycles.

Thanks AlbertaFarmer5. The only problem with your hypothesis is that 2 days ago two new studies were released showing the ocean currents are slowing and one claims the AMOC is now the the weakest in 1600 years. If less warm tropical water is moving north, not sure how that would account for warmer arctic ocean. Second a major cause of slowing ocean currents is addition of fresh water from Greenland glacier and sea ice melt which is a result of global warming. Lots of reporting on these new studies from journal Nature itself, Scientific American, Washington Post, take your pick when you get time.

[dmlfarmer]

Data tampering/fraud has been found time and time again when the temperature data did not fit the global warming narrative. If a scientist questions the mainstream warming narrative they often get labelled a lunatic and find themselves out of work. So for 20% of scientists willing to risk their livelihood and reputation and go against the grain says alot. Hell 99.99% of scientists once agreed the earth was flat.

It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so. Mark Twain

I would counter by saying data tampering/fraud is just as evident in arguments against climate change. If you are as open minded as you want me to believe, I hope you read the paper Seepage: Climate change denial and its effect on the scientific community. https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0959378015000515#! https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0959378015000515#!
It describes how vested interests, politics, and non experts have driven down scientific consensus on climate change. If you don't want to read the entire paper, at least look at section 6.1.2 dealing with global warming hiatus.
And I agree with the Twain quote. It applies equally to climate deniers too.

[Sharecropper]

Real facts Saskfarmer 3 and others who says there has been no climate change:
From Alberta Climate records:
Key Messages
•30 temperature indices and 15 precipitation indices were calculated for the period 1950 to 2010 for the Province of Alberta, including trend analysis with significance levels.
•Results provide a compelling picture of overall warming and changes of weather extremes.
•It could be confirmed that Alberta's climate is warming stronger than the global average.
•Annual average temperatures have increased by 1 - 2°C in the South, and by 2 - 4°C in the North, with winters showing the strongest warming (up to 8°C), and summer the weakest warming (often 1°C or less).
•Generally, and with few exceptions, the number of very cold days, when the minimum temperature falls below -10°C, has about halved across Alberta since the 1950s, and the number of heatwaves has roughly doubled.
•With the exception of regions with high elevations, snowfall is being replaced by rainfall (because of shorter winters).
•The growing season has lengthened by between 2 and 5 weeks per year.
•Energy requirements for heating have decreased by about 10%, but the energy requirements for cooling are increasing in the extreme south-east of the Province.
•The temperature trends reported here are likely to continue and accelerate, thus providing an indication of what we expect in the near future.
•Historical temperature records are no longer a true indicator for the future, and society must adapt to the new conditions.

Anyone who has flown over BC, AB, SK forests know the damage of mountain pine beetle and that a primary reason of the expansion of the beetle is we no longer have cold enough temps to kill the beetle https://www.unbc.ca/releases/2007/climate-change-and-mountain-pine-beetle https://www.unbc.ca/releases/2007/climate-change-and-mountain-pine-beetle
https://www.unbc.ca/releases/2007/climate-change-and-mountain-pine-beetle

From NOAA

[ATTACH]2811[/ATTACH]

OK dmlfarmer. We all believe you. Climate change is real and it's caused by humans. These are facts and should not be debated or questioned. However, my question is why is climate change a bad thing? I think most here would enjoy a longer growing season and the ability to plant new crops such as corn and soybeans. But maybe I'm just confused.

[Sheepwheat]

OK dmlfarmer. We all believe you. Climate change is real and it's caused by humans. These are facts and should not be debated or questioned. However, my question is why is climate change a bad thing? I think most here would enjoy a longer growing season and the ability to plant new crops such as corn and soybeans. But maybe I'm just confused.

It is because of the massive threat of drought you see. Like in the 30’s, when climate change caused the dust bowl. Also, a 250 day feeding period for the livestock peoplekind, is perfect. Who would want a shorter feed period?

And of course, it also has to do with the much higher volatility in weather patterns. Never before has there ever been tornadoes, hurricanes, floods, frosts. You shoulda seen North America when it was only Indians. It was perfect. Weather and climate was ideal, none were ever hungry. Bison fell onto their laps. No one ever was cold, in spite of it being 1.73594 degrees colder back then. You should have seen the Indians thermometers and climate science data journals! Thanks to them, we know precisely how perfect the climate had been. You see, we want those perfect conditions back. Who wouldn’ want bison falling on your lap?

[AlbertaFarmer5]

OK dmlfarmer. We all believe you. Climate change is real and it's caused by humans. These are facts and should not be debated or questioned. However, my question is why is climate change a bad thing? I think most here would enjoy a longer growing season and the ability to plant new crops such as corn and soybeans. But maybe I'm just confused.

Everyone except Grassfarmer.

So far, the evidence is that the net result of changes has been positive for the human race.

In a previous thread I asked for real time evidence of the catastrophic results of CAGW on agricultural output. 30+ years after the first dire predictions, they should be easy to find, even though farmers have successfully adapted to an improved and more benign climate, no one has been able to provide any real cases of decreased production on a global scale,just more dire but vague predictions about what will happen in another 30 years into the future.
This is not results based science, it is backwards looking, creating the narrative to fit the reality, regardless of what the reality is.

[dmlfarmer]

OK dmlfarmer. We all believe you. Climate change is real and it's caused by humans. These are facts and should not be debated or questioned. However, my question is why is climate change a bad thing? I think most here would enjoy a longer growing season and the ability to plant new crops such as corn and soybeans. But maybe I'm just confused.

First, I have never said humans are 100% responsible for climate change. But I have no doubt we contribute to it. Use of fossil fuels is not 100% efficient - far from it in vehicles. Waste heat is produced and given the huge burning of fossil fuels over the past century, we have to had an impact. Simply drive by a flare stack and you will witness a wasteful contribution to global warming.

Second, climate change and global warming MUST be debated and questioned. Just like me asking the solar radiation crowd about arctic temps. It is people on BOTH sides who are so closed minded that they even refuse to consider both sides of the discussion that is causing problems and preventing affordable action.

But you asked a good question and here is my response:
Food production: global warming means hotter, but that does not mean there will be more rainfall, or even enough to offset the transpiration loss caused by hotter growing conditions. We could see even drier conditions in Palliser Triangle and expansion of this short grass prairie area. After all difference between Edmonton and Medicine Hat average summer temps is only 2C. We all know what happens to canola if we get 30C + temps throughout flowering. More violent storms increasing hail and flood damage. Bigger need for irrigation which is a limited resource. New insects and disease pests. etc. In Michigan in 2012, the well above normal winter temps resulting in Cherry trees budding too early and farmers lost an estimated $220 million in cherries that year. Introduction of new plant diseases and insects.

Natural Disasters: Between 2007 and 2017 it is estimated the US alone spent $350 billion in fighting forest fires and recovery from natural disasters. Global warming is said will increase such problems. Look at what it cost in Canada fighting forest fires in BC, last year. Fires made worse by lack of rainfall, high temps, and trees killed by pine tree beetle which are rampant because we no longer have cold enough winters to kill them naturally. How many more High River floods or Fort McMurray, Slave Lake fires will we get if temps continue up?

Health. West Nile virus is now in Canada. Zika and Chikungunya virus are now in US, all because the environment necessary for the mosquitos that carry these viruses has expanded northward. More deaths from heat waves.

Globably: We are now spending almost as much for AC as for heating and AC demands continue to go up as temps rise. Around 60% of the worlds pop depends on rivers fed from glaciers/mountains and those water supplies are threatened. Many of the major cities around the world are low lying, seaside and are threatned by rising sea levels. On a global scale we simply cannot afford the potential infrastructure loss or the migration which will result from sea level rise.

[AlbertaFarmer5]

First, I have never said humans are 100% responsible for climate change. But I have no doubt we contribute to it. Use of fossil fuels is not 100% efficient - far from it in vehicles. Waste heat is produced and given the huge burning of fossil fuels over the past century, we have to had an impact. Simply drive by a flare stack and you will witness a wasteful contribution to global warming.

Second, climate change and global warming MUST be debated and questioned. Just like me asking the solar radiation crowd about arctic temps. It is people on BOTH sides who are so closed minded that they even refuse to consider both sides of the discussion that is causing problems and preventing affordable action.

But you asked a good question and here is my response:
Food production: global warming means hotter, but that does not mean there will be more rainfall, or even enough to offset the transpiration loss caused by hotter growing conditions. We could see even drier conditions in Palliser Triangle and expansion of this short grass prairie area. After all difference between Edmonton and Medicine Hat average summer temps is only 2C. We all know what happens to canola if we get 30C + temps throughout flowering. More violent storms increasing hail and flood damage. Bigger need for irrigation which is a limited resource. New insects and disease pests. etc. In Michigan in 2012, the well above normal winter temps resulting in Cherry trees budding too early and farmers lost an estimated $220 million in cherries that year. Introduction of new plant diseases and insects.

Natural Disasters: Between 2007 and 2017 it is estimated the US alone spent $350 billion in fighting forest fires and recovery from natural disasters. Global warming is said will increase such problems. Look at what it cost in Canada fighting forest fires in BC, last year. Fires made worse by lack of rainfall, high temps, and trees killed by pine tree beetle which are rampant because we no longer have cold enough winters to kill them naturally. How many more High River floods or Fort McMurray, Slave Lake fires will we get if temps continue up?

Health. West Nile virus is now in Canada. Zika and Chikungunya virus are now in US, all because the environment necessary for the mosquitos that carry these viruses has expanded northward. More deaths from heat waves.

Globably: We are now spending almost as much for AC as for heating and AC demands continue to go up as temps rise. Around 60% of the worlds pop depends on rivers fed from glaciers/mountains and those water supplies are threatened. Many of the major cities around the world are low lying, seaside and are threatned by rising sea levels. On a global scale we simply cannot afford the potential infrastructure loss or the migration which will result from sea level rise.

All anecdotal evidence. A neighbor works in forestry management, he says pine beetle infestations are nothing new, happened about 40 years ago last time. What is different is contigious poorly managed forests which provide an unbroken path for them to migrate through. This was not a normal state of affairs until humans started managing forest fires, and selectively logging leaving corridors everywhere.

AC is about comfort, heat is about staying alive, a more afluent society fuelled with cheap energy can afford the luxury of increased AC, irrelevant of global temperature.

An isolated incidence of Cherry's budding too early(yet cherry production continues to grow worldwide), what about all of the isolated incidents of frost and cold hurting production?

Sea level rise is nothing new, and there is nothing we can do about it except keep moving in land. Maps are available showing sea levels at the peak of the last ice age which was 120meters lower. That trend is continuing, regardless of how much CO2 we put into the atmosphere, whether we can afford it or not, we will gradually be rebuilding all of that infrastructure and resettling all of those people, as we have been doing for millenia already.

You just claimed that increased flooding and lack of rainfall are going to be the results of global warming. You are guaranteed to be correct with such broad predictions.

[Sheepwheat]

Course when it was only Indians, there was never fires caused by man...lol

[Guest]

Brrrrrr.....global warming shouldn’t be a concern in Edmonton now.

it's just weather Oliver, unless it's hot for a couple days. then it's global warming .

[Sheepwheat]

it's just weather Oliver, unless it's hot for a couple days. then it's global warming .

😝 true enough.

[sumdumguy]

R

All anecdotal evidence. A neighbor works in forestry management, he says pine beetle infestations are nothing new, happened about 40 years ago last time. What is different is contigious poorly managed forests which provide an unbroken path for them to migrate through. This was not a normal state of affairs until humans started managing forest fires, and selectively logging leaving corridors everywhere.

AC is about comfort, heat is about staying alive, a more afluent society fuelled with cheap energy can afford the luxury of increased AC, irrelevant of global temperature.

An isolated incidence of Cherry's budding too early(yet cherry production continues to grow worldwide), what about all of the isolated incidents of frost and cold hurting production?

Sea level rise is nothing new, and there is nothing we can do about it except keep moving in land. Maps are available showing sea levels at the peak of the last ice age which was 120meters lower. That trend is continuing, regardless of how much CO2 we put into the atmosphere, whether we can afford it or not, we will gradually be rebuilding all of that infrastructure and resettling all of those people, as we have been doing for millenia already.

You just claimed that increased flooding and lack of rainfall are going to be the results of global warming. You are guaranteed to be correct with such broad predictions.

I heard global warming may cause hair to grow on your face Grassfarmer and dml. 😱 Better get cracking with the windmill and solar panels and permanently park all fossil-fueled modes of transportation. Can’t wait to see McKenna and Wynne with the new beard. 👏

[furrowtickler]

A view from the cool side..

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=z0P3yKJmuvc

[blackpowder]

Ah, OK. So how can todays science explain our killing our economy while the rest of the world keeps dollars flowing to pay for new ideas??

[furrowtickler]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=5hSywOUGTRA