Supply Management or NO DEAL

[chuckChuck]

You do need to understand Chuck that research paid for by the DFO will be as unbiased as climate research paid for by a liberal government. In another words, put it on the toilet roll.

Ok, produce evidence they are wrong!


http://business.financialpost.com/pmn/commodities-business-pmn/agriculture-commodities-business-pmn/baloney-meter-does-the-united-states-protect-its-dairy-producers-too

"Adam Taylor, a trade consultant who was an aide to the former Conservative trade minister in Canada, says there’s a more insidious form of U.S. subsidies — undocumented migrant workers on U.S. dairy farms.

Taylor pointed to a pair of surveys that measured the impact of undocumented workers on the dairy industry.

A September 2015 survey by the U.S. National Milk Producers Federation found that half of all workers on U.S. dairy farms are immigrants and if those workers were excluded from the workforce, the price of a gallon of milk would soar 90 per cent. It said the cost to the U.S. economy would be $32 billion.

Last month, another study found that if all illegal workers were kicked out of New York state, 1,100 of its farms would go out of business or reduce their output significantly.

“Americans are hypocrites for going after supply management given their reliance on the undocumented workers that keep U.S. dairy prices artificially low,” said Taylor.

Taylor’s old boss, former trade minister Ed Fast, urged the Liberal government to use that “hypocrisy” to push back at the NAFTA bargaining table.

“The industry itself in the United States has admitted they wouldn’t be viable if they couldn’t use undocumented workers. This is a problem we don’t have in Canada,” said Fast in an interview."

[bobofthenorth]

Everyone with a brain has known for years that supply management's days were numbered. Trump has figured out that it is the hill Truedumb is prepared to die on. This will get a lot worse before it gets better because in the big trade picture supply management is irrelevant. Auto manufacturing on the other hand is serious business and that's Trump's real target. Watch him make the little potato squirm over which industry he wants to cave on. Meanwhile JT is looking to 2019 and being able to run against Trump. I don't expect any quick resolution.

[tubs]

the dairy boards are like the mafia a good old boys network. We get subsidy too through useless programs that keep a lot of people working. Like cropinsurance and our ag department that have no idea what is going on on the farm. Private cropinsurance way cheaper for me

[sewen]

Shouldn’t the Trump administration be playing checkers in a seniors home somewhere?

[chuckChuck]

https://www.agcanada.com/daily/report-pegs-u-s-dairy-support-levels

Report pegs U.S. dairy support levels
U.S. gradually moving toward risk management-based system
Posted Feb. 13th, 2018 by John Greig

Peter Clark
Trade lawyer Peter Clark has studied the level of subsidies available to U.S. dairy farmers. (John Greig photo)

U.S. dairy farmers continue to benefit from broad agriculture supports, a study shows.

Dairy Farmers of Canada has had Grey, Clark, Shih and Associates regularly study the effect of U.S. government policy on dairy farms in that country.

The latest version of the project was released at the Dairy Farmers of Canada policy conference held last week in Ottawa.

It showed U.S. dairy farmers benefit from the equivalent of US$12.06 per hundredweight or C$35.02 per hectolitre. That’s close to 70 per cent of what farmers are paid now for their milk.

Peter Clark, a long-time trade consultant and lawyer with the firm, said at the conference that the U.S. is gradually moving more of its programs toward risk management.

“The U.S. has become aware of the WTO inconsistency of many of their programs,” said Clark. “They’re shifting from direct and countercyclical payments and other issues to various types of insurance programs.”

Clark’s 500-page report is a detailed analysis of many programs, and notes a certain amount of the funds for those programs is allocated to the potential use of those programs by dairy farmers, not actual use.

The programs include: domestic support, export subsidies, conservation programs, crop and livestock gross margin, risk management programs, disaster relief assistance programs, loan programs, crop insurance, livestock support as well as renewable fuels incentives and subsidies and irrigation programs.

Nick Thurler, a Dairy Farmers of Ontario board member from eastern Ontario, said that he knows numerous dairy farmers across the border in New York.

“I know if I told them they got $12 per hundredweight subsidy, I know what the answer would be,” he said.

Clark said he’s heard from people who say they know U.S. farmers who get no direct subsidies, but he points out that the subsidies are mostly indirect and farmers in the western U.S. have much greater benefit due to irrigation.

Alfalfa and forages are the biggest users of irrigation water, mostly to feed dairy cattle — hence the massive amount of money that goes into irrigation systems, he said.

“We look at what is available” to dairy farmers, said Clark. That’s typical of trade evaluations done by other countries as well, he added.

Clark’s study also included the impact of nutrition programs in the U.S. on dairy products.

“Some argue it should be seen as welfare and we shouldn’t be allocating it in this analysis,” he said, but he includes it as the original program was created as a way to deal with excess agriculture production.

U.S. Trade Representative Robert Lighthizer’s lawyers, Clark noted, have reports that list 160 subsidies on Canadian steel.

“When it comes to trade, you have to be precise.”

— John Greig is a field editor for Glacier FarmMedia based at Ailsa Craig, Ont. Follow him at @jgreig on

[15444]

Every farmer knows how subsidies prop up a dead American farming system. That is not a question. But the leader is supposed to counter attack with proposals to eliminate such US programs. Drama boy is an idiot. His ministers are idiots. No one in cabinet has a clue about economy, trade or negotiations.

Where is dipshit MacAulay offering his 2 cents on what ag subsidies should be negotiated for elimination? Nowhere, because the moron doesn't know the file! He thinks majority farmers want a carbon tax! Dumbest ag leader yet!

[fjlip]

Yes complicated but I have said it for years , even to the Feds, COPY ALL USA Ag programs and their will be no trade disputes...never happened. We have to be DIFFERENT! Made in Canada or Quebec.
Most dairies out west are GONE sold their quota for millions, BIL included. Same with poultry, neighbors all quit but one. Pay to play how DUMB is that?

[chuckChuck]

Yes complicated but I have said it for years , even to the Feds, COPY ALL USA Ag programs and their will be no trade disputes...never happened. We have to be DIFFERENT! Made in Canada or Quebec.
Most dairies out west are GONE sold their quota for millions, BIL included. Same with poultry, neighbors all quit but one. Pay to play how DUMB is that?

They should have never allowed quota to be bought and sold as it becomes an expensive barrier to entry and adds costs to the system. Now if supply management is ended, supply management farmers will demand compensation for lost quota value. It will be a big cost.

If the americans won't give up their direct and indirect subsidies why should we give up our better managed supply management system?

If some feel its is a burden on low income Canadians to pay more for supply managed products lets see the comparison of US and Canadian prices and cost of production comparisons. If there is a big difference you can solve that problem with an easy tax credit for low income earners. I prefer to eat better quality Canadian products and keep Canadian farmers in business.

Many farmers on this site complain about being ripped off by the free market for grain, inputs, transportation and machinery and yet want to destroy a system that makes sure you can cover your cost of production and stay in business.

[Horse]

Why should the taxpayer be stuck with the cost of quota, the dairy board is the ones that have forced the cost so dam high on a free item in the first place. As for us subsidies if one happens to have am irrigation on your farm and also milk doesn't that become double dipping. Lots of the milk farms have handed them down in the family to help inflate quotas, and oh boo 'hood I have made numerous bad business decisions and no one came to bail me out.

[Rareearth]

Why is it only dairy being talked about?

Why are Hutterites out of dairy now, moving to feathers etc?

There is more than one supply managed system with quota.

[GDR]

Why should the taxpayer be stuck with the cost of quota, the dairy board is the ones that have forced the cost so dam high on a free item in the first place. As for us subsidies if one happens to have am irrigation on your farm and also milk doesn't that become double dipping. Lots of the milk farms have handed them down in the family to help inflate quotas, and oh boo 'hood I have made numerous bad business decisions and no one came to bail me out.

So then if the government came to you and said we need your land for roads/utilities/development whatever and said we are taking it away for free because we dont want the taxpayers to bear the cost of buying it out you would be good with that? Quota is an asset and I would bet the lion's share of it in the west has been purchased in the last 15yrs and the cost is in the millions per farm. Very few generational dairies left that would have been involved in the introduction of the system. (maybe more in the east)

Give your head a shake and think about your fellow farmers. Your suggestion is on par with whats going on in South Africa.

[agstar77]

Trump's withdrawal from the G7 statement was really about Russia. The statement included a clause about punishing Russia for election interference. His rant used Trudeau's comments as an excuse. We can't have the Golden shower tapes come out can we?

[Oliver88]

Yes complicated but I have said it for years , even to the Feds, COPY ALL USA Ag programs and their will be no trade disputes...never happened. We have to be DIFFERENT! Made in Canada or Quebec.
Most dairies out west are GONE sold their quota for millions, BIL included. Same with poultry, neighbors all quit but one. Pay to play how DUMB is that?

You are 100% correct.

Copy all USA farm programs and they can’t complain at all.

[WiltonRanch]

Trump's withdrawal from the G7 statement was really about Russia. The statement included a clause about punishing Russia for election interference. His rant used Trudeau's comments as an excuse. We can't have the Golden shower tapes come out can we?

Must’ve been quite a summit. Captain Crayon hosting and all but the 800 lb orange haired tardy gorilla in the room. Like Rodney Dangerfield in Caddyshack.

[AlbertaFarmer5]

Ultimately, the price of Kota reflects supply and demand, No one forced anyone to pay these prices for the privilege to print money, Supply management has been on the chopping block for years, This shouldn't come as a surprise to anyone. They invested in it knowing the risks, No different than the rest of us investing in overpriced land or machinery. I don't expect the taxpayers to bail me out if My poor choices of investment go underwater.

Perhaps a gradual phaseout would be the better route to recover some of the quota costs rather than the taxpayers paying for it.