Money in Bank vs Owning land? I think the tides have turned.

[jazz]

Go to china, get stuck in a Californian traffic jam, go to India. You'll appreciate a low population density. I hope Canada stays at 30 million for ever.

Based on our current immigration trends, if we added another $150M people, they would all end up in Toronto, Montreal and Vancouver. Not much of a nation building exercise if people wont live anywhere else.

There are lots of small population countries with top notch infrastructure and economic base. Norway comes to mind...again. We dont need to flood the streets with people to be successful, we just need to get our prioroties straight. We are sitting on top of numerous world class resources, why not be the next Saudi Arabia, small pop. living the high life off commodities. It has the same population as we do.

And for gods sake put some real policies in effect to get canadians having kids again. Pay anyone $50k for having a 3rd kid. Give them free tuition, anything, but for gods sake stop bringing in unskilled, poor people with no money, no english language skills and basically no hope but govt supports.

[Klause]

I totally agree Klause, I want to see canada developed out the ying yang. We should be dominating a dozen major export classes. As for the 150 million people, I am selective about how we get there. Not the way we are now with low skilled people coming here. That will just bring us down further trying to support them.

Agreed fully!

That's the big problem. Canada is a very hard country to come into if you know something, or want to do something, and it's not particularly friendly to those people. We need to change that.

Even as far as Asians that come here... It's the spoiled rich kids using Vancouver as their playground... it's not serious business people.

Heck, the province of Sask is involved with a guy that the Chinese government wants to put in front of a firing squad for defrauding people and immigration scams - doesn't show a real good picture (Brightenview development)

Regarding immigration, with the right tax policies, business friendly regulations, and major changes to social policies, we could attract the "socialism refugees" from around the developed world. We could attract the entrepreneurs, the investors, the highly educated and motivated, who are trying to escape the creeping socialism and anti business environment currently affecting most of the western world outside of the US( at least temporarily).

If you look at our current tax structure and social programs it is like a huge sign telling these ambitious people not to come here.

^This. Like.


If you look at major centres like Buenos Aires, they have huge foreign communities - Chinese, German, Scandinavian, like Chinatowns... all of the people in these communities run businesses, or represent global corporations. We lack that here, and it's striking.

We need politicians with vision... It's a problem all over the post-industrial world. Trump, for all his flaws and rough edges is one of the few leaders who has a spark and the aggressiveness and tenacity that we need. I fear voting in Scheer is simply trading Trudeau for Trudeau lite.

[Klause]

Based on our current immigration trends, if we added another $150M people, they would all end up in Toronto, Montreal and Vancouver. Not much of a nation building exercise if people wont live anywhere else.

There are lots of small population countries with top notch infrastructure and economic base. Norway comes to mind...again. We dont need to flood the streets with people to be successful, we just need to get our prioroties straight. We are sitting on top of numerous world class resources, why not be the next Saudi Arabia, small pop. living the high life off commodities. It has the same population as we do.

And for gods sake put some real policies in effect to get canadians having kids again. Pay anyone $50k for having a 3rd kid. Give them free tuition, anything, but for gods sake stop bringing in unskilled, poor people with no money, no english language skills and basically no hope but govt supports.

Well, you see lots of immigrants coming to smaller centres. Saskatoon and Regina are full of them. The entire Blairmore development in Saskatoon looks like little Pakistan.


The problem is all these people are low-skill. Canada has a reputation for being a welfare state, so guess who shows up here for the most part. I know some very skilled middle-eastern oilfield engineers. Great people, but they couldn't find work in Canada so they're working in the States... Lots of examples like that.

The problem with us vs. Saudi Arabia or Norway is geography. Our resources are vastly distributed over a huge land base. It's really hard to extract and process those without a labor force.

This might land me criticism, but we also need to quit sending every tom dick and harry to university. Universities need entrance exams, and send the bright kids there for real degrees in STEM and Sociology fields. Not native and women studies or liberal arts.

Then bring in comprehensive trade schools and put kids through them. Not everyone is capable of designing an Antares rocket, but you need people to wire, plumb, machine, and assemble that rocket and those jobs are just as important and valuable.

We cannot build a "knowledge based economy". Knowledge is fluid and transcends borders... Once you teach somebody how to do something, or even just show them, they will have no need for you, because they'll be able to replicate it themselves.

[Rareearth]

Perhaps the strategy might include justice and criminal system that “works”!

I’m saying work camps within the criminal justice system to rehabilitate, reward, and develop skilled workers while developing infrastructure.

[AlbertaFarmer5]

Agree on the University rant as well. If you want to get a liberal arts degree, go ahead, but you will pay the full cost plus extra to subsidize the programs that have actual careers at the end. Shouldn't be able to apply for university without first proving that you have researchedone the job prospects.

What a huge waste of human capital our current education system is. Completely out of touch with what industry actually needs . It is however very effective at creating lifelong SJW lefty voters.

[grassfarmer]

Agreed fully!

That's the big problem. Canada is a very hard country to come into if you know something, or want to do something, and it's not particularly friendly to those people. We need to change that.

Again not my experience, for business immigrants its a swift and painless process.

Here is a thought though - why are you so down on the "low skilled" immigrant workers? With the progress of technology and automation I'd expect there to be more of that kind of job going forward not less.
The other reason we need "low skilled" immigrant workers is that it's a hard job getting Canadians to work in my experience. Trying to get workers that can make a competent job of relatively simple chores on the farm is damn near impossible. Most of them quit because it's too hard work or the hours are too long. There is a whole generation coming up who get finished one chore and instead of using some initiative to figure out what needs done next sit down and play on their phones. That's why we will continue to need immigrants - because they come here with a work ethic, the same as the immigrants that built this country.

[Klause]

Again not my experience, for business immigrants its a swift and painless process.

I'm curious, and this is a personal question... are you married/kids when you came here?

Here is a thought though - why are you so down on the "low skilled" immigrant workers? With the progress of technology and automation I'd expect there to be more of that kind of job going forward not less.
The other reason we need "low skilled" immigrant workers is that it's a hard job getting Canadians to work in my experience. Trying to get workers that can make a competent job of relatively simple chores on the farm is damn near impossible. Most of them quit because it's too hard work or the hours are too long. There is a whole generation coming up who get finished one chore and instead of using some initiative to figure out what needs done next sit down and play on their phones. That's why we will continue to need immigrants - because they come here with a work ethic, the same as the immigrants that built this country.

Good observation. This is complex.


First off, you're right, Canadians especially in the under 35 age group are (in general) spoiled, lazy brats. Our education system is at fault for part of this as is their parents... Everyone here has this "You need to go to university, you're better than that, blah blah blah" viewpoint - you then create an entire generation that doesn't value hard work and thinks it's beneath them. They get university degrees, but find that job market saturated and go back home or take a poor paying job in the "corporate" world. On top of that, they come out of university spending most of their time partying. The focus, instead of learning, and higher education, is "passing the test" which is retarded - they come out and are still unskilled. Anyway, back to the point - we need to change this and get that younger generation working. Not everybody is cut out to be a rocket engineer all work is good and all work is valuable. We need to teach that and get our own people into the workforce.

Otherwise, that group of useless drains on society keeps growing and when it reaches a critical mass we won't be able to support them - it's why all these suggestions of "min-come" are so scary.

As far as immigrants - this notion that just because they come from another country, they are "hard working" is wrong. I have friends that came here from other nations, western and eastern... same problem in that group... You have a few that are building businesses and hustling and then you have a large group that just comes here and expects hand outs. Millennialism isn't isolated to Canada or North America, or Europe.

The company I work for had some Somali 20somethings hired... figured we'd give them a hand up. These guys were late every day, I had to wake them up in the morning, tell them each step at work and then got called a slave driver... and accused of "using them as slaves"... HDD isn't really that tough these days... Hell we had a 60 year old Newfie hydrovac operator, he was struggling with his hose so I sent the one guy to help him, what do I get? "That's not my job if he can't do it by himself that's his problem"

There are two groups that migrate countries - always have been.

Those that are industrious and looking for a better life for their families and children, and those simply looking for a better place to leach off of. We have far too many of the latter.


The challenge is appealing to immigrants with work ethic, skills, and drive - bringing those in, and keeping the rest out because, and I think you'd agree, "immigrants" that are hear to live off of our social programs don't help anybody.

I'm not saying we should stop accepting legitimate "refugees" either. But don't let anyone in that claims refugee status.

[grassfarmer]

I wasn't married, didn't have kids when I moved here.

I must admit to not being too familiar with the welfare system in Canada but what benefits can a family moving here expect to get by just moving here? My impression is that a lot less than in the UK - there you get can unemployment benefit from age 16 to 65 if you tell them you can't find a job plus there is local council supplied housing essentially free to anyone that applies. There are multi-generational families of spongers there living in free housing that have never worked or have any intention of working. Many sit in the pub all day and bemoan the Poles immigrants that are taking over their country and "taking their jobs". Scottish agriculture couldn't function nowadays without the Polish workers.

[AlbertaFarmer5]

Which Peter Zeihan books or articles are you referring to? Just started reading the accidental superpower, this is a subject I can't get enough of.

[macdon02]

Which Peter Zeihan books or articles are you referring to? Just started reading the accidental superpower, this is a subject I can't get enough of.

Just sign up for his emails. If you really want to see how screwed the world is in regards to demographics watch his YouTube channel. The declining birthrate and the baby boomers entering retirement can't fund the increasing life expectancy ..... tech medicine etc. Japan is ground zero. If you read Armstrong and Zeihan the pieces make a very clear pic.
https://www.bigspeak.com/speakers/peter-zeihan/

[AlbertaFarmer5]

Just sign up for his emails. If you really want to see how screwed the world is in regards to demographics watch his YouTube channel. The declining birthrate and the baby boomers entering retirement can't fund the increasing life expectancy ..... tech medicine etc. Japan is ground zero. If you read Armstrong and Zeihan the pieces make a very clear pic.
https://www.bigspeak.com/speakers/peter-zeihan/

Thanks, will do.

[samhill]

I’m with Biglentil on this, 30 mil is all we need, but better yet we need to separate western Canada from the east.
We cannot have eastern Canada ruling us in the west. I would prefer from Thunder Bay west.
Have the indigenous portion be special, OK, but on their own dime. Everyone needs to work, it’s the only way to have self esteem.
We don’t need immigrants just so real estate developers and contractors can get rich, and who will vote liberal so that eventually Canada becomes as their homeland was.