Money in Bank vs Owning land? I think the tides have turned.

[Klause]

Klause you are always stating how much better it is to farm in a number of countries. So why are you farming in canada?

That question is getting old.


How do you make things better? Learning from other's examples, improving on them? Self-analysis, and self-criticism to see where we can do better?


Or living in fairytale land thinking we're the best, always were the best, always will be?


Why is the first reaction to somebody saying "we need to do xyz better to have a better advantage" always "Boohoo we don't like you why are you here"?

Do you want your children living in a third world $hithole? I don't.

Our businesses are adding debt without competitiveness.

The public is in debt over their eyeballs

So is the state.

We have nothing to show for it. Name a major infrastructure project built in the last decade... The last major project was the bridge to PEI.


We buy our fertilizer a year in advance, store our grain for a year after production, and float the entire "agribusiness" system in this country - nobody else does this anywhere in the world. How long do you think that'll work with higher interest rates? There's no elasticity in primary production income to pay for that... Nobody talks about this issue, or even brings it up... we're talking about buying land and paying for it, never mind the business of production agriculture.


Owning land is always a good thing... owning land in Canada is a good investment. Just not at inflated prices.

[macdon02]

Read Zeihan, Klause.

[bucket]

Well put Klause ,,,,,just gotta wait for the leeches to be bent over....

[jazz]

So klause, I assume you are in support of 100 million people being added to our population because if you want all those things, you need to have a much bigger tax base to draw from. Hopefully the extra 100 million people can find work - kind of a chicken and egg thing. Those countries all have debt too, lots more. China has trillions of off book debts lurking in their corrupt markets.

Sure China has high speed rail, but it also has facial recognition cameras installed all over the country. We will see how their economy responds to its first real depression or when the people get a taste of consumer freedom and want real freedom. See what happens when automation puts a few hundred million out of work.

Russia grows lowest quality of wheat on the planet. They can go feed all the poor people if they want. We should target high quality first world consumers who have money.

I hate canada's SJW turn for the worse as well and it definitely could impact our standard of living and I abhor the Liberals and their identity rights politics and the lack of infrastructure as well, but most countries get things built by much more strong arm tactics. They would laugh at our soft ways. On this I am in agreement we could be definitely falling behind. Whether that will affect a raw commodity that is exported to the rest of the world remains to be seen.

[Klause]

So klause, I assume you are in support of 100 million people being added to our population because if you want all those things, you need to have a much bigger tax base to draw from. Hopefully the extra 100 million people can find work - kind of a chicken and egg thing. Those countries all have debt too, lots more. China has trillions of off book debts lurking in their corrupt markets.

We need 150 million people in this country. Then we'd have the critical mass to actually have successful industries, and we could rely on ourselves instead of export markets. Build infrastructure, create jobs, jobs bring people, people bring money, and on it goes. Why do you think the USA was so successful in attracting people from all over the world?

Argentina and Canada had populations that were similar. Argy has 10 million more people than Canada now... Immigration, not births account for most of it... why would a third world "shithole" be more attractive than Canada? We need to ask ourselves that.

Sure China has high speed rail, but it also has facial recognition cameras installed all over the country. We will see how their economy responds to its first real depression or when the people get a taste of consumer freedom and want real freedom. See what happens when automation puts a few hundred million out of work.

Not sure about your camera comment. Toronto and Vancouver have them also, as does (most famously) all of England. They can track movements of their citizens 24/7 in London.
Not all people want

You don't seem to understand, China doesn't have a western culture, their social structure, societal norms, and governance are different - always have been, always will be. I'm not going to get into religious and societal feelings here, but there's lots to study there.

Russia grows lowest quality of wheat on the planet. They can go feed all the poor people if they want. We should target high quality first world consumers who have money.

Two things with this statement.

First of all, that was true once upon a time in the days of Soviet collective farms.

Not today. This is an analysis of Russian wheat. Note protein above 13%, 30% gluten, and the fact they get worried with fusarium at 0.4-0.8%. Our #2 standard is 0.8% or better. This is a major issue in "high end" markets.
http://tusaf2017.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/04/Sergey-Chumak-ENG.pdf http://tusaf2017.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/04/Sergey-Chumak-ENG.pdf



Second, how do you propose we get our wheat into those "high end, premium first-world" markets... That would be Europe and Japan... They don't want glyphosate pre harvest treatments (as is evidenced by a clear lack of a durum market right now - Italy was a major first world buyer that went elsewhere). You want us to go after premium markets - which I agree with - but somehow here in Canada we're so ignorant and arrogant that we think we can tell those premium markets what they should buy... Instead of catering to them.

I hate canada's SJW turn for the worse as well and it definitely could impact our standard of living and I abhor the Liberals and their identity rights politics and the lack of infrastructure as well, but most countries get things built by much more strong arm tactics. They would laugh at our soft ways. On this I am in agreement we could be definitely falling behind. Whether that will affect a raw commodity that is exported to the rest of the world remains to be seen.

Really?

GDP per Capita in Canada has been dropping since 2016. Currently, investment flows are less than 30 billion into Canada, and 100 billion plus out of the country (it was exactly the opposite 10 years ago).

Humanity in 3rd world, or developing countries wants to get ahead, they want better for their families, for themselves, for their children. That thirst, and drive is going to get them places - Here, we're too busy worrying about penises and fake women issues to have any drive.

That pipeline will never get built to the coast... Unless something changes.

Unless we get our export business in order we are toast. That's already being felt in pulses, wheat, and oil.

With the current dynamics with America, it'll become very painfully evident since we can't just send things south anymore.

[AlbertaFarmer5]

We buy our fertilizer a year in advance, store our grain for a year after production, and float the entire "agribusiness" system in this country - nobody else does this anywhere in the world. How long do you think that'll work with higher interest rates?

I've read many times that Argentina farmers are storing their crop for a year or more as a hedge against inflation. Likewise with inputs, purchasing them ahead. And they are doing that in an extremely hostile interest rate environment.

[jazz]

Canada is probably destined to turn into europe unless we can right the ship in 2019. If not, that would be it for us.

Whatever system the chinese are under, they are aggressive - something we lack, hence our millions of people on supports and non-contributors to the economy, then spend their time blocking development and extracting concessions from politicians. This is socialism lite creeping into our complex.

I totally agree Klause, I want to see canada developed out the ying yang. We should be dominating a dozen major export classes. As for the 150 million people, I am selective about how we get there. Not the way we are now with low skilled people coming here. That will just bring us down further trying to support them.

[biglentil]

Go to china, get stuck in a Californian traffic jam, go to India. You'll appreciate a low population density. I hope Canada stays at 30 million for ever.

[AlbertaFarmer5]

Canada is probably destined to turn into europe unless we can right the ship in 2019. If not, that would be it for us.

Whatever system the chinese are under, they are aggressive - something we lack, hence our millions of people on supports and non-contributors to the economy, then spend their time blocking development and extracting concessions from politicians. This is socialism lite creeping into our complex.

I totally agree Klause, I want to see canada developed out the ying yang. We should be dominating a dozen major export classes. As for the 150 million people, I am selective about how we get there. Not the way we are now with low skilled people coming here. That will just bring us down further trying to support them.

Regarding immigration, with the right tax policies, business friendly regulations, and major changes to social policies, we could attract the "socialism refugees" from around the developed world. We could attract the entrepreneurs, the investors, the highly educated and motivated, who are trying to escape the creeping socialism and anti business environment currently affecting most of the western world outside of the US( at least temporarily).

If you look at our current tax structure and social programs it is like a huge sign telling these ambitious people not to come here.

[jazz]

Go to china, get stuck in a Californian traffic jam, go to India. You'll appreciate a low population density. I hope Canada stays at 30 million for ever.

Based on our current immigration trends, if we added another $150M people, they would all end up in Toronto, Montreal and Vancouver. Not much of a nation building exercise if people wont live anywhere else.

There are lots of small population countries with top notch infrastructure and economic base. Norway comes to mind...again. We dont need to flood the streets with people to be successful, we just need to get our prioroties straight. We are sitting on top of numerous world class resources, why not be the next Saudi Arabia, small pop. living the high life off commodities. It has the same population as we do.

And for gods sake put some real policies in effect to get canadians having kids again. Pay anyone $50k for having a 3rd kid. Give them free tuition, anything, but for gods sake stop bringing in unskilled, poor people with no money, no english language skills and basically no hope but govt supports.

[Klause]

I totally agree Klause, I want to see canada developed out the ying yang. We should be dominating a dozen major export classes. As for the 150 million people, I am selective about how we get there. Not the way we are now with low skilled people coming here. That will just bring us down further trying to support them.

Agreed fully!

That's the big problem. Canada is a very hard country to come into if you know something, or want to do something, and it's not particularly friendly to those people. We need to change that.

Even as far as Asians that come here... It's the spoiled rich kids using Vancouver as their playground... it's not serious business people.

Heck, the province of Sask is involved with a guy that the Chinese government wants to put in front of a firing squad for defrauding people and immigration scams - doesn't show a real good picture (Brightenview development)

Regarding immigration, with the right tax policies, business friendly regulations, and major changes to social policies, we could attract the "socialism refugees" from around the developed world. We could attract the entrepreneurs, the investors, the highly educated and motivated, who are trying to escape the creeping socialism and anti business environment currently affecting most of the western world outside of the US( at least temporarily).

If you look at our current tax structure and social programs it is like a huge sign telling these ambitious people not to come here.

^This. Like.


If you look at major centres like Buenos Aires, they have huge foreign communities - Chinese, German, Scandinavian, like Chinatowns... all of the people in these communities run businesses, or represent global corporations. We lack that here, and it's striking.

We need politicians with vision... It's a problem all over the post-industrial world. Trump, for all his flaws and rough edges is one of the few leaders who has a spark and the aggressiveness and tenacity that we need. I fear voting in Scheer is simply trading Trudeau for Trudeau lite.

[Klause]

Based on our current immigration trends, if we added another $150M people, they would all end up in Toronto, Montreal and Vancouver. Not much of a nation building exercise if people wont live anywhere else.

There are lots of small population countries with top notch infrastructure and economic base. Norway comes to mind...again. We dont need to flood the streets with people to be successful, we just need to get our prioroties straight. We are sitting on top of numerous world class resources, why not be the next Saudi Arabia, small pop. living the high life off commodities. It has the same population as we do.

And for gods sake put some real policies in effect to get canadians having kids again. Pay anyone $50k for having a 3rd kid. Give them free tuition, anything, but for gods sake stop bringing in unskilled, poor people with no money, no english language skills and basically no hope but govt supports.

Well, you see lots of immigrants coming to smaller centres. Saskatoon and Regina are full of them. The entire Blairmore development in Saskatoon looks like little Pakistan.


The problem is all these people are low-skill. Canada has a reputation for being a welfare state, so guess who shows up here for the most part. I know some very skilled middle-eastern oilfield engineers. Great people, but they couldn't find work in Canada so they're working in the States... Lots of examples like that.

The problem with us vs. Saudi Arabia or Norway is geography. Our resources are vastly distributed over a huge land base. It's really hard to extract and process those without a labor force.

This might land me criticism, but we also need to quit sending every tom dick and harry to university. Universities need entrance exams, and send the bright kids there for real degrees in STEM and Sociology fields. Not native and women studies or liberal arts.

Then bring in comprehensive trade schools and put kids through them. Not everyone is capable of designing an Antares rocket, but you need people to wire, plumb, machine, and assemble that rocket and those jobs are just as important and valuable.

We cannot build a "knowledge based economy". Knowledge is fluid and transcends borders... Once you teach somebody how to do something, or even just show them, they will have no need for you, because they'll be able to replicate it themselves.

[Rareearth]

Perhaps the strategy might include justice and criminal system that “works”!

I’m saying work camps within the criminal justice system to rehabilitate, reward, and develop skilled workers while developing infrastructure.

[AlbertaFarmer5]

Agree on the University rant as well. If you want to get a liberal arts degree, go ahead, but you will pay the full cost plus extra to subsidize the programs that have actual careers at the end. Shouldn't be able to apply for university without first proving that you have researchedone the job prospects.

What a huge waste of human capital our current education system is. Completely out of touch with what industry actually needs . It is however very effective at creating lifelong SJW lefty voters.

[grassfarmer]

Agreed fully!

That's the big problem. Canada is a very hard country to come into if you know something, or want to do something, and it's not particularly friendly to those people. We need to change that.

Again not my experience, for business immigrants its a swift and painless process.

Here is a thought though - why are you so down on the "low skilled" immigrant workers? With the progress of technology and automation I'd expect there to be more of that kind of job going forward not less.
The other reason we need "low skilled" immigrant workers is that it's a hard job getting Canadians to work in my experience. Trying to get workers that can make a competent job of relatively simple chores on the farm is damn near impossible. Most of them quit because it's too hard work or the hours are too long. There is a whole generation coming up who get finished one chore and instead of using some initiative to figure out what needs done next sit down and play on their phones. That's why we will continue to need immigrants - because they come here with a work ethic, the same as the immigrants that built this country.