Hydrogen fuel cells

[pourfarmer]

Not really.

Not anymore.

There's 8 types of hydrogen fuel cells. Some of the exotic ones are very efficient... The US military uses fuel cells to power all their bases because it's incredibly "clean" power... and when you count on heat usage efficiency is on the order of 85%


You can make diesel and gas cars work on hydrogen too... Injected through the airstream. Go from 10mpg to 60+


There's also a very big difference between hydrogen storage and a hydrogen bomb. Equating the two is silly.


You can store the hydrogen in the form of NH3 too. Makes it inert.


Armchair scientists on here... yet DARPA, SCRAM, and the AATIC have it figured out...

Read here: https://www.energy.gov/eere/fuelcells/fuel-cell-technologies-office-plans-implementation-and-results and here: https://www.defensenews.com/land/2017/04/03/hydrogen-fuel-cell-technology-could-bring-stealth-to-army-vehicles/

You will see that commercial fuel cells are still in infancy stage of development. Especially in regards to safety. US Mil still testing as of this spring, with no launch date predicted. Sounds like they don't quite 'have it figured out'.

Another important note, is hydrogen fuel cells still require an energy source. Therefore, we can not make statements about efficiency of a fuel cell. Efficiency is going to depend on all the variables of the type of energy being used as 'charger'.

You can make gasoline engines run on hydrogen, this is nothing new. However the electrical power from your 12v battery/alternator that is needed to convert h2o into h2 will soon have you realising the first law of thermodynamics.

[Klause]

Read here: https://www.energy.gov/eere/fuelcells/fuel-cell-technologies-office-plans-implementation-and-results and here: https://www.defensenews.com/land/2017/04/03/hydrogen-fuel-cell-technology-could-bring-stealth-to-army-vehicles/

You will see that commercial fuel cells are still in infancy stage of development. Especially in regards to safety. US Mil still testing as of this spring, with no launch date predicted. Sounds like they don't quite 'have it figured out'.

Another important note, is hydrogen fuel cells still require an energy source. Therefore, we can not make statements about efficiency of a fuel cell. Efficiency is going to depend on all the variables of the type of energy being used as 'charger'.

You can make gasoline engines run on hydrogen, this is nothing new. However the electrical power from your 12v battery/alternator that is needed to convert h2o into h2 will soon have you realising the first law of thermodynamics.

There's planes flying on fuel cells today. You aren't going to find this tech by searching google.

Why would you be generating the hydrogen on the vehicle? Although in Australia, they have put solar panels on a car, generate power to split water at a rate fast enough to power the vehicle.

And New Holland has the NH2 tractor.

http://www.thecleanenergyleader.com/en/nh2_tm_hydrogen/hydrogenenergy.html http://www.thecleanenergyleader.com/en/nh2_tm_hydrogen/hydrogenenergy.html


And Doosan has these...
http://www.doosanfuelcell.com/en/fuel-cell-solutions/purecell-system/ http://www.doosanfuelcell.com/en/fuel-cell-solutions/purecell-system/

Fuel cells are ideal technology for northern areas where you have a lack of wind/sun in winter, and a surplus of both in summer. Generate, store, then use in winter and as a side-effect produce all the heat required for the building.

The tech available to the public isn't anywhere near as advanced as military technology.

[tmyrfield]

This is why...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rWeO1q0gHJE http://https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rWeO1q0gHJE

[pourfarmer]

There's planes flying on fuel cells today. You aren't going to find this tech by searching google.

Why would you be generating the hydrogen on the vehicle? Although in Australia, they have put solar panels on a car, generate power to split water at a rate fast enough to power the vehicle.

And New Holland has the NH2 tractor.

http://www.thecleanenergyleader.com/en/nh2_tm_hydrogen/hydrogenenergy.html http://www.thecleanenergyleader.com/en/nh2_tm_hydrogen/hydrogenenergy.html


And Doosan has these...
http://www.doosanfuelcell.com/en/fuel-cell-solutions/purecell-system/ http://www.doosanfuelcell.com/en/fuel-cell-solutions/purecell-system/

Fuel cells are ideal technology for northern areas where you have a lack of wind/sun in winter, and a surplus of both in summer. Generate, store, then use in winter and as a side-effect produce all the heat required for the building.

The tech available to the public isn't anywhere near as advanced as some of the stuff in military applications.... Like planes that don't have to land for months.

How will you store the hydrogen in the vehicle, if you cant generate it on board? How much will you need complete a 400km trip? What operating pressure is the tank running at? Will it need to be cooled after decompression? What happens if you get rear ended by a Tahoe?

The NH tractor shows an on board pressure vessel to store hydrogen, no talk of psi or usage per tank. The prototype was developed in 2008/09, and is being tested on a farm in Italy. They're converting biomass to hydrogen, an ideal model... however you could not get me to sit 4ft behind a hydrogen pressure vessel.

The doosan fuel cell converts nat gas to hydrogen, their model is highly skewed. When compared of other nat gas generators, they show heat as being lost when that is rarely the case as heat exchanges are widely used in generating stations. Of course, the model shows their heat as being usable, even though it is less % then the conventional nat gas generators. Fancy foot work and pretty graphics makes you forget nat gas generators are one of the most efficient ways to generate heat and electricity. This is simply marketing, I expect there will be tax incentives to purchase things like the doosan purecell, when a standard nat gas generator with a heat exchanger is almost 5% more efficient and sells for a fraction of the cost.

I like the idea of a fuel cell, like a super battery. But as it sits right now, with the info that's available to me as a farmer/consumer, I think I will wait for others to validate the tech, my opinion is based wholly on operator/user safety.

[biglentil]

Even at 10,000 psi, the best achievable energy density of hydrogen with current high-pressure tanks is about 15 percent of the energy content of gasoline in the same given volume.

Sound cheap and easy to you guys? Oh wait just use your alternator to constantly produce it. Lol

[pourfarmer]

Even at 10,000 psi, the best achievable energy density of hydrogen with current high-pressure tanks is about 15 percent of the energy content of gasoline in the same given volume.

Sound cheap and easy to you guys? Oh wait just use your alternator to constantly produce it. Lol

This is what I was saying, it can not be safely done with our current consumer tech and I don't have access to DARPA/USMIL assets/info. Maybe Klause does?

My comment about generating on board using an 12v battery/alternator, was a real world example of seeing the laws of thermodynamics and entropy in action.

[TASFarms]

I made one and used it on semi. Very small gain if your motor is tuned up good. Takes a lot of electricity to make hydrogen and the catylist is very dangerous to handle. Not worth it in my books but very open to be proven wrong. Maybe there is lot better technology out now compared to when I tried it

[biglentil]

I made one and used it on semi. Very small gain if your motor is tuned up good. Takes a lot of electricity to make hydrogen and the catylist is very dangerous to handle. Not worth it in my books but very open to be proven wrong. Maybe there is lot better technology out now compared to when I tried it

Thats interesting TAS! I've never tried it on a truck myself. I would have thought its a losing process. Electrical power on a vehicle is not free. With a typical engine efficiency of 40%, a belt efficiency of 98% and an alternator efficiency of 55%, the best electrolysis of hydrogen is 80% efficient. For a 16% overall efficiency of conversion.