the 12 billion aid package

[pgluca]

How about controlling what you can. Planning for some bad years, saving a bit of money, not overbidding for land, stop buying expensive equipment. And really we are in a market driven business.
And profit is not a right when it comes to farming. Yes the rail shit needs to be changed but to ask for subsidies because of a tariff is a little rich. How about not overextending and realize not every year is going to be profitable.

Absolutely correct, it is about time this was emphasized on this forum. And subsidies do always end up getting capitalized into land values. This doesn't help much if you are trying to farm the land. Plus they often have some form of control or restrictions along with them that further distort the market.

Bucket is correct in that the governments concern for agriculture is not significant and that other industries are getting ad hoc subsidies, but that still doesn't make it the right solution. They just have more votes and more than ever that is what todays politics are all about...… at any cost.

Another more insidious feature of all types of subsidies is in a very short time people seem to change their management styles to rely on them as a back stop, instead of a more conservative "cover your own ass" style of management. As Bowerpower said a profit is not an entitlement, making a living or being a "Family Farm" is not an entitlement. Farming is an unforgiving business and if you want to take on large risks you must be prepared to occasionally handle a large failure.

[bucket]

Absolutely correct, it is about time this was emphasized on this forum. And subsidies do always end up getting capitalized into land values. This doesn't help much if you are trying to farm the land. Plus they often have some form of control or restrictions along with them that further distort the market.

Bucket is correct in that the governments concern for agriculture is not significant and that other industries are getting ad hoc subsidies, but that still doesn't make it the right solution. They just have more votes and more than ever that is what todays politics are all about...… at any cost.

Another more insidious feature of all types of subsidies is in a very short time people seem to change their management styles to rely on them as a back stop, instead of a more conservative "cover your own ass" style of management. As Bowerpower said a profit is not an entitlement, making a living or being a "Family Farm" is not an entitlement. Farming is an unforgiving business and if you want to take on large risks you must be prepared to occasionally handle a large failure.

Why does Bombardier get the entitlement then as a family business on a intravenous supply of money from the government? they should have been done years ago.

Same with graincos how do they not get harmed by railway incompetence?

[pgluca]

Why does Bombardier get the entitlement then as a family business on a intravenous supply of money from the government? they should have been done years ago.

Same with graincos how do they not get harmed by railway incompetence?

Well Bucket, two answers: Move to Quebec where special status is the norm. And be connected politically to the inner circles.

[bucket]

Well Bucket, two answers: Move to Quebec where special status is the norm. And be connected politically to the inner circles.

Yes well that's the right answer but a shitty one....lol.

But might explain the WCWGA members attitude about farming...since they are inner circle connected...which hole is another discussion....

[pgluca]

Why does Bombardier get the entitlement then as a family business on a intravenous supply of money from the government? they should have been done years ago.

Same with graincos how do they not get harmed by railway incompetence?

The grain companies get harmed but as a group they have a way to redistribute the pain.....to you!

[Klause]

Absolutely correct, it is about time this was emphasized on this forum. And subsidies do always end up getting capitalized into land values. This doesn't help much if you are trying to farm the land. Plus they often have some form of control or restrictions along with them that further distort the market.

Bucket is correct in that the governments concern for agriculture is not significant and that other industries are getting ad hoc subsidies, but that still doesn't make it the right solution. They just have more votes and more than ever that is what todays politics are all about...… at any cost.

Another more insidious feature of all types of subsidies is in a very short time people seem to change their management styles to rely on them as a back stop, instead of a more conservative "cover your own ass" style of management. As Bowerpower said a profit is not an entitlement, making a living or being a "Family Farm" is not an entitlement. Farming is an unforgiving business and if you want to take on large risks you must be prepared to occasionally handle a large failure.

This is the Canadian way, run around the world, preach a holier-than-thou attitude while getting laughed at by everyone.


Agriculture in Canada doesn't get much attention because it's a tiny, part of the GDP, and national employment. And our politicians, farm groups, and retards in charge don't understand there's only farming, mining, forestry, fishing, and oil exports that create currency reserves and wealth - and everything else is simply rotating fake paper.

Our organizations are run by short sighted fools that believe in "free markets" and "free trade" which are a complete myth.

A free market economy has no barriers (because there's no government to set them up), and at the same time, no regulations which support super-large corporate entities. Small businesses are agile enough to survive without regulations propping up their business structures - Bayersanto, BASF, etc. aren't - they are no different that government (socialism) - bloated, beaurocratic, and in-efficient.

They are using governance, these stupid trade deals (if you actually read them, it's quite obvious), and international regulatory structures to sustain themselves. If you take all of this away (big government), they (mega-corporations) would fail almost instantly and we'd have a true market economy. However, considering all of our ag groups are funded, fronted, or influenced by the likes of Bayersanto, and none of the directors have the integrity to stand up for producers against the bullshit, we have no actual farm org's with the breadth, capacity, or capability to stand up for primary producers.

The world is at war. Trade is war. At all times. In all regions. To gain and maintain the upper hand you capitalize on every situation. The Americans are very adept at this - as are the Russians, Argentines, well, basically all exporting nations except for us.

Argentine peas are trading into India at $9 CAD a bushel FOB farm - let that sink in.

Russia is capitalizing on the trade war and shipping wheat to Mexico... Anybody care to guess why we aren't over that market like white-on-rice?

But, instead we're running around with "agvocates" and feel good ag stories and quasi-fake "foundations", trying to change the consumer and the world's perception - arrogantly telling them what to think, and what they should buy.



PS: If all subsidies end up getting capitalized in land & equipment values, which do we have the highest $/ac vs. production land prices in the Americas, and the most expensive farm equipment in the world, considering we have 0 subsidization in most ag sectors.

[Klause]

The grain companies get harmed but as a group they have a way to redistribute the pain.....to you!

Yes, except it's a very short sighted strategy - mainly because Canada's grain "families" don't look past their nose.

You know what happens when you can't deliver on contracts and boats are collecting demurrage charges in port? You get labeled an unreliable supplier. When you're competing on an international stage where your competition and receive, load and turn boats in under 8 hours every day - with grain of grade and condition in port ready to go, you become the supplier of last resort.


So, would you rather be the first person to get called, or the last? And who do you think can negotiate better terms?

[bucket]

Thanks Klause....your explanation is much more politically correct...

But you highlight what I keep calling incompetence , collusion and just shitty attitudes on our farm groups....Saskpulse should be screaming for something to be done....instead the directors move on to another gig....

some vision they have when they can't solve a problem....but its understandable when they come from a culture of when combine don't work and the easiest solution is knowing a new one is on its way....people like that lack vision because they really dont understand the inner workings ,....they want to sit around the desk bullshitting.

[Klause]

This is why Ag isn't important.

Also, very telling of structural problems in our economy.

[pgluca]

This is the Canadian way, run around the world, preach a holier-than-thou attitude while getting laughed at by everyone.


Agriculture in Canada doesn't get much attention because it's a tiny, part of the GDP, and national employment. And our politicians, farm groups, and retards in charge don't understand there's only farming, mining, forestry, fishing, and oil exports that create currency reserves and wealth - and everything else is simply rotating fake paper.

Our organizations are run by short sighted fools that believe in "free markets" and "free trade" which are a complete myth.

A free market economy has no barriers (because there's no government to set them up), and at the same time, no regulations which support super-large corporate entities. Small businesses are agile enough to survive without regulations propping up their business structures - Bayersanto, BASF, etc. aren't - they are no different that government (socialism) - bloated, beaurocratic, and in-efficient.

They are using governance, these stupid trade deals (if you actually read them, it's quite obvious), and international regulatory structures to sustain themselves. If you take all of this away (big government), they (mega-corporations) would fail almost instantly and we'd have a true market economy. However, considering all of our ag groups are funded, fronted, or influenced by the likes of Bayersanto, and none of the directors have the integrity to stand up for producers against the bullshit, we have no actual farm org's with the breadth, capacity, or capability to stand up for primary producers.

The world is at war. Trade is war. At all times. In all regions. To gain and maintain the upper hand you capitalize on every situation. The Americans are very adept at this - as are the Russians, Argentines, well, basically all exporting nations except for us.

Argentine peas are trading into India at $9 CAD a bushel FOB farm - let that sink in.

Russia is capitalizing on the trade war and shipping wheat to Mexico... Anybody care to guess why we aren't over that market like white-on-rice?

But, instead we're running around with "agvocates" and feel good ag stories and quasi-fake "foundations", trying to change the consumer and the world's perception - arrogantly telling them what to think, and what they should buy.



PS: If all subsidies end up getting capitalized in land & equipment values, which do we have the highest $/ac vs. production land prices in the Americas, and the most expensive farm equipment in the world, considering we have 0 subsidization in most ag sectors.

Klause, we have subsidies, the biggest one is crop insurance 50% paid by the taxpayer, (I like to think of it as getting some of my own taxes back). Also to a very small extent AgriInvest. And apparently some people can get money out of Agristabilty, how I have never figured out. These definitely affect peoples ability to bid land prices up and afford predatory priced inputs.