the 12 billion aid package

[Klause]

Absolutely correct, it is about time this was emphasized on this forum. And subsidies do always end up getting capitalized into land values. This doesn't help much if you are trying to farm the land. Plus they often have some form of control or restrictions along with them that further distort the market.

Bucket is correct in that the governments concern for agriculture is not significant and that other industries are getting ad hoc subsidies, but that still doesn't make it the right solution. They just have more votes and more than ever that is what todays politics are all about...… at any cost.

Another more insidious feature of all types of subsidies is in a very short time people seem to change their management styles to rely on them as a back stop, instead of a more conservative "cover your own ass" style of management. As Bowerpower said a profit is not an entitlement, making a living or being a "Family Farm" is not an entitlement. Farming is an unforgiving business and if you want to take on large risks you must be prepared to occasionally handle a large failure.

This is the Canadian way, run around the world, preach a holier-than-thou attitude while getting laughed at by everyone.


Agriculture in Canada doesn't get much attention because it's a tiny, part of the GDP, and national employment. And our politicians, farm groups, and retards in charge don't understand there's only farming, mining, forestry, fishing, and oil exports that create currency reserves and wealth - and everything else is simply rotating fake paper.

Our organizations are run by short sighted fools that believe in "free markets" and "free trade" which are a complete myth.

A free market economy has no barriers (because there's no government to set them up), and at the same time, no regulations which support super-large corporate entities. Small businesses are agile enough to survive without regulations propping up their business structures - Bayersanto, BASF, etc. aren't - they are no different that government (socialism) - bloated, beaurocratic, and in-efficient.

They are using governance, these stupid trade deals (if you actually read them, it's quite obvious), and international regulatory structures to sustain themselves. If you take all of this away (big government), they (mega-corporations) would fail almost instantly and we'd have a true market economy. However, considering all of our ag groups are funded, fronted, or influenced by the likes of Bayersanto, and none of the directors have the integrity to stand up for producers against the bullshit, we have no actual farm org's with the breadth, capacity, or capability to stand up for primary producers.

The world is at war. Trade is war. At all times. In all regions. To gain and maintain the upper hand you capitalize on every situation. The Americans are very adept at this - as are the Russians, Argentines, well, basically all exporting nations except for us.

Argentine peas are trading into India at $9 CAD a bushel FOB farm - let that sink in.

Russia is capitalizing on the trade war and shipping wheat to Mexico... Anybody care to guess why we aren't over that market like white-on-rice?

But, instead we're running around with "agvocates" and feel good ag stories and quasi-fake "foundations", trying to change the consumer and the world's perception - arrogantly telling them what to think, and what they should buy.



PS: If all subsidies end up getting capitalized in land & equipment values, which do we have the highest $/ac vs. production land prices in the Americas, and the most expensive farm equipment in the world, considering we have 0 subsidization in most ag sectors.

[Klause]

The grain companies get harmed but as a group they have a way to redistribute the pain.....to you!

Yes, except it's a very short sighted strategy - mainly because Canada's grain "families" don't look past their nose.

You know what happens when you can't deliver on contracts and boats are collecting demurrage charges in port? You get labeled an unreliable supplier. When you're competing on an international stage where your competition and receive, load and turn boats in under 8 hours every day - with grain of grade and condition in port ready to go, you become the supplier of last resort.


So, would you rather be the first person to get called, or the last? And who do you think can negotiate better terms?

[bucket]

Thanks Klause....your explanation is much more politically correct...

But you highlight what I keep calling incompetence , collusion and just shitty attitudes on our farm groups....Saskpulse should be screaming for something to be done....instead the directors move on to another gig....

some vision they have when they can't solve a problem....but its understandable when they come from a culture of when combine don't work and the easiest solution is knowing a new one is on its way....people like that lack vision because they really dont understand the inner workings ,....they want to sit around the desk bullshitting.

[Klause]

This is why Ag isn't important.

Also, very telling of structural problems in our economy.

[pgluca]

This is the Canadian way, run around the world, preach a holier-than-thou attitude while getting laughed at by everyone.


Agriculture in Canada doesn't get much attention because it's a tiny, part of the GDP, and national employment. And our politicians, farm groups, and retards in charge don't understand there's only farming, mining, forestry, fishing, and oil exports that create currency reserves and wealth - and everything else is simply rotating fake paper.

Our organizations are run by short sighted fools that believe in "free markets" and "free trade" which are a complete myth.

A free market economy has no barriers (because there's no government to set them up), and at the same time, no regulations which support super-large corporate entities. Small businesses are agile enough to survive without regulations propping up their business structures - Bayersanto, BASF, etc. aren't - they are no different that government (socialism) - bloated, beaurocratic, and in-efficient.

They are using governance, these stupid trade deals (if you actually read them, it's quite obvious), and international regulatory structures to sustain themselves. If you take all of this away (big government), they (mega-corporations) would fail almost instantly and we'd have a true market economy. However, considering all of our ag groups are funded, fronted, or influenced by the likes of Bayersanto, and none of the directors have the integrity to stand up for producers against the bullshit, we have no actual farm org's with the breadth, capacity, or capability to stand up for primary producers.

The world is at war. Trade is war. At all times. In all regions. To gain and maintain the upper hand you capitalize on every situation. The Americans are very adept at this - as are the Russians, Argentines, well, basically all exporting nations except for us.

Argentine peas are trading into India at $9 CAD a bushel FOB farm - let that sink in.

Russia is capitalizing on the trade war and shipping wheat to Mexico... Anybody care to guess why we aren't over that market like white-on-rice?

But, instead we're running around with "agvocates" and feel good ag stories and quasi-fake "foundations", trying to change the consumer and the world's perception - arrogantly telling them what to think, and what they should buy.



PS: If all subsidies end up getting capitalized in land & equipment values, which do we have the highest $/ac vs. production land prices in the Americas, and the most expensive farm equipment in the world, considering we have 0 subsidization in most ag sectors.

Klause, we have subsidies, the biggest one is crop insurance 50% paid by the taxpayer, (I like to think of it as getting some of my own taxes back). Also to a very small extent AgriInvest. And apparently some people can get money out of Agristabilty, how I have never figured out. These definitely affect peoples ability to bid land prices up and afford predatory priced inputs.

[Klause]

Klause, we have subsidies, the biggest one is crop insurance 50% paid by the taxpayer, (I like to think of it as getting some of my own taxes back). Also to a very small extent AgriInvest. And apparently some people can get money out of Agristabilty, how I have never figured out. These definitely affect peoples ability to bid land prices up and afford predatory priced inputs.

Sask crop insurance contributes more to the General revenue Fund than the provincial and federal portions. You know what that means? It means some of our premiums are going to the GRF also.


You know what I call that? A tax.

SCIC is a hidden tax.


AgStab has been so watered down it's a joke.

How about 17% off of all inputs?

Or a 75% interest rebate?


Or direct price protection?


Or a base rail cost competitive to world markets?


I just named some ag subsidies in Argentina, USA, and Russia

[farmaholic]

Klause, we have subsidies, the biggest one is crop insurance 50% paid by the taxpayer, (I like to think of it as getting some of my own taxes back). Also to a very small extent AgriInvest. And apparently some people can get money out of Agristabilty, how I have never figured out. These definitely affect peoples ability to bid land prices up and afford predatory priced inputs.

I don't believe crop insurance premiums are subsidized, not to the tune of 50% anyway. Didn't someone mention some of the surplus premiums ended up in Sask's general revenue fund? That might only be hearsay, I never verified the claim.

I'm sure I wouldn't be farming today had it not been for all the subsidies I received in the past.(sarcasm). What would the Ag Industry look like today if it weren't for subsidies...is primary Ag production even viable without them(sarcasm).

I would think the Industry would find away to bleed us of them if we were to recieve any substantial subsidies. To say we would capitalize it into land or machinery is somewhat incorrect, both may be a "capital" investment but land is the only one that(generally) won't depreciate and increase in value with inflation. Goods and services prices will rise to soak up any subsidies....so in essence, who is the subsidy for? There is a huge amount of people sucking on the Ag tit. Companies supplying goods and services to the primary producer don't seem to feel the need or want to run leaner....I wish I could just keep ratcheting up my grain prices like machinery dealership do the parts, shop rates and equipment prices. Then there's the fert, chem, seed, fuel, freight, basis...ad nauseam!

Edit, Didn't mean to reiterate some of Klause's post, I was busy composing my masterpiece when he posted his

[foragefarmer]

ajl

" Need to find a buyer for that overpriced Canadian land and start looking south of the border. Was some grain land (15000 acres or so) in central Montana about 60 miles NE of Billings for around $600 USD per acre back in the spring. Was due to come out of CRP in the next couple of years"

There's a very good reason why the land was originally put in the CRP program. If you feel you can show the seller how to make a go of it, what's holding you back? Lots of cheap talk?