So if supply management issue will save Canada then why not?

[Integrity_Farmer]

Europe still subsidizes their farmers. Nothing's changed..


Argentina has a going interest rate of 60% and agriculture pays %5-11

Why? Because primary production is how countries guarantee food security and foreign exchange.


Canadians (and maybe Aussies) are the only ones too dense to realize this.

We gave up the crow rate... Do you see a single new flour mill or pasta plant?


We gave up the cwb. Did we get concessions from anybody? Did we get a transparent market?

We gave up the seeds act and now look where we are.


Now we will give up SM.


Those that settled the prairies did so with the promise of land od their own and a way to get their production to market.


Today, we have no constitutional right to own property, our rights are infringed and eroded daily, and we no longer have access to markets.



Makes you wonder what all that back breaking work and survival through all of the trials of the early 1900s/late 1800s was worth it.

And producer organizations that are run by tea-puppets with no understanding of the past or the future just keep making it worse.

When you tell government you are robust, dot need subsidies, don't want subsidies and say everything industry is great, well why are you blaming politicians?

Thanks Klause for the intelligent insightful comments.

[the big wheel]

[QUOTE=caseih;388040]

Hmmm sounds familiar. Speaking of which did anyone else hear the Rona Ambrose interview on NAFTA at the weekend when she said the CWB was a supply management system. Was surprised she made that comment - thought she'd have known better than that.[/QUOTE
well it kinda was , 2/3 of farmers quit growing wheat because of it , so it did manage the supply
I think she is smarter than all three of the leaders of the 3 parties put together , fwiw

She's not smarter if that's what she said. Oh my God is it any wonder these trade deals are a gong show?? Nobody there even knows the industries they are making deals about. Hahaha.
Oh well we have a has been politician advising lawyers on a pipeline that has been denied and he's posting about people who lost their jobs while collecting his pay check for a failure of getting it done. What a world.

When you think of all these useless people getting big bucks and pensions for knowing nothing. Farmers earn every penny of payment market subsidy or otherwise.

[grassfarmer]

My kids would like to raise more turkeys and chickens, and one daughter wants to sell her goat milk and cheese, but sm doesn’t allow for it.

Yet more false information - there is absolutely no restriction on goats milk or cheese under supply management. Your kids want to raise more than 999 chickens? whats the turkey limit in SK 300? Lots of opportunity there for enterprising kids or as add on businesses for adults.

I may be corrected on this but I believe New Zealand used to have sm years ago then took it away from their dairy farmers. Some pain at first but now their industry is doing better than ever.

I don't know of any other country that has ever a SM system like Canada - plenty have had quota systems to regulate production but only Canada ties that in to a financial component where the Government agency sets a price based on cost of production. That's an important difference and why Canada's system has been a success. So claims that various countries had SM and got rid of it without the farmers suffering are false as they never had it in the first place!

[Horse]

Grass, that's the major problem is the jacking up of quota prices and then adding them to cost of production. Quota was free and should have remained so, those that talk about what it would cost to buy out the quotas,, why buy something back that was a gift in the first place, most of the quota is still in the family that got it free in family transfers with inflated price.

[Sheepwheat]

Yet more false information - there is absolutely no restriction on goats milk or cheese under supply management. Your kids want to raise more than 999 chickens? whats the turkey limit in SK 300? Lots of opportunity there for enterprising kids or as add on businesses for adults.

Our farm has been shifting the last several years, into becoming a much more diverse place, to get off the grain farming nightmare train. The local food movement is real, and is huge. The real meat movement is real, and is huge. Meat raised the good old fashioned way is hard to beat, and is incomparable to the w@tered down crap available in main stream stores.

Will have to look into the goat milk issue further. A dairy farmer told me it was restricted. Go figure? And yes, my kids would like to raise more egg layers. Capped at 299. And meat birds are at 999 per year. So we are limited to two batches of only 499.5. Worst is turkeys, capped at 99. My youngest daughter wants to graze them with the sheep, but can only do 99? Ridiculous. We could sell 500 tomorrow morning, without even trying...

Our family wants to raise and market far superior meat products than is currently available, and on a large scale. But we can’t, because of sm. The market is certainly there. We never have enough meat birds. We already make city deliveries, and would like to make it more worth our while, but we are restricted. Granted, few people are like us and want to do the work. But for people like us, the restrictions are ridiculous, and hold us back. Thanks to a few quota farmers, who are obviously fearful to try to compete in a real life market, against a far superior product.

Will look closer into the goat milk thing. Funny that a dairy guy shut me down! 😂

[agboy]

yes very good point sheepwheat!!!

look what S-M has done to the small family farm !
and now it will stop NAFTA !! this S-M
KILL for good and trading with U-S-A is getting better

[grassfarmer]

........ look what S-M has done to the small family farm !......

Yeah, kept them in business - prosperous dairy farms making a good living off a quarter section. While grain takes how many thousands acres? Ranching is generally supported by off-farm income. SM dairy is the most successful sector of Canadian agriculture so let's not throw it away based on jealousy and misinformation.

[WiltonRanch]

What about sm poultry and eggs? Some years back guy was around doing oil business and was a grain farmer and had an egg laying enterprise but shut it in cause profit was so pitiful they needed to expand to like a million chickens or it wasn’t worth it. I don’t give a crap about sm but isn’t it foolish when you need a million chickens to make a living? Or once free quota is worth so much? Hats off to folks willing to pull tits 24/7 and deal with poultry cause it isn’t my cup of tea. I’m torn about this cause guys in the dairy side appear to be doing well and I’m not a jealous guy and happy for them but it’s ****ing stupid quota is traded like a commodity and has the value it does. It almost appears to be an entitlement. That is what it is wrong. Trump and the cluster**** of overproduction in the states aside sm is alright for Canada and I’d really hate to see it gone for a vapid reason such as someone trying to buy a few votes.

[Sheepwheat]

Yeah, kept them in business - prosperous dairy farms making a good living off a quarter section. While grain takes how many thousands acres? Ranching is generally supported by off-farm income. SM dairy is the most successful sector of Canadian agriculture so let's not throw it away based on jealousy and misinformation.

Where are the one quarter dairy farms? I worked in the winter for a dairy supply company, and have yet to go to a farm with less than 250 cows and lots of land. And I have visited a lot of dairies.

[grassfarmer]

Where are the one quarter dairy farms? I worked in the winter for a dairy supply company, and have yet to go to a farm with less than 250 cows and lots of land. And I have visited a lot of dairies.

I knew several in my area of central Alberta. The national average is 86 cows per herd - 85 in Ontario, 64 in QC, 148 MB, 172 SK and 152 AB. Averages are made up of big and small of course but there are still plenty small herds.

[grassfarmer]

An article in last weeks MB Cooperator shows the idiocy of the anti-SM campaign. An article by Gwyn Morgan of Troy Media, who is described as a retired Canadian business leader - former chairman of SNC-Lavalin and former President and CEO of Encana tries to highlight the success Australia has had since deregulating their milk production.

He quotes a Fraser Institute report that "Consumers have benefitted from lower prices for fresh milk. Farmers have received consistently rising farmgate prices......"

Then a paragraph later he contradicts this by saying how Australian producers survived the change "through carefully constructed transition measures that cushioned the lower prices received by producers"

It's all lies and misinformation. Of course the producer is going to get less, that's the goal - so the processor can make more like in every other sector.

[15444]

Haven't seen any 'successful' small dairy farmers that weren't loaded to the hilt with debt, and I have a few around me. Dairy inspectors are shutting down the older 'debt free' barns and mandating new ones or your done. 4 barns around me have quit for that reason. Latest casualty, father and son team, milking 60 cows, 40 year old barn. Inspector says need a new barn. Price tag, $2.5 mil. Son says he don't love Holsteins that much. They shut down in October. Inspectors are gradually eliminating all barns more than 25 years old as building codes and milk handling specifications have changed.

[the big wheel]

Haven't seen any 'successful' small dairy farmers that weren't loaded to the hilt with debt, and I have a few around me. Dairy inspectors are shutting down the older 'debt free' barns and mandating new ones or your done. 4 barns around me have quit for that reason. Latest casualty, father and son team, milking 60 cows, 40 year old barn. Inspector says need a new barn. Price tag, $2.5 mil. Son says he don't love Holsteins that much. They shut down in October. Inspectors are gradually eliminating all barns more than 25 years old as building codes and milk handling specifications have changed.

and if they can't do it with guarantees of this system what kind of suppliers will their be south of the border? Do we just accept their standards as being as good as ours? Or are headed for a lead in the water type scenario?

[WiltonRanch]

Haven't seen any 'successful' small dairy farmers that weren't loaded to the hilt with debt, and I have a few around me. Dairy inspectors are shutting down the older 'debt free' barns and mandating new ones or your done. 4 barns around me have quit for that reason. Latest casualty, father and son team, milking 60 cows, 40 year old barn. Inspector says need a new barn. Price tag, $2.5 mil. Son says he don't love Holsteins that much. They shut down in October. Inspectors are gradually eliminating all barns more than 25 years old as building codes and milk handling specifications have changed.

Watch that Dr Poll show and the dairies you see him visit have walls covered in shit and falling down around them. Are US standards that less rigorous to ours? Can understand you want clean milk but you can see the zeitgeist of officials favouring those with deep pockets or willing to sell their souls to life of pulling tits, and what for if you’re milking a few.

[15444]

Watch that Dr Poll show and the dairies you see him visit have walls covered in shit and falling down around them. Are US standards that less rigorous to ours? Can understand you want clean milk but you can see the zeitgeist of officials favouring those with deep pockets or willing to sell their souls to life of pulling tits, and what for if you’re milking a few.

A lot of those dairies on Dr Pol are either subsidizing their operations with off-farm income, or getting a healthy kick-back from the show itself, I am sure you could find out how much if you went looking for the info. Those types everywhere in the US are going down the tubes daily. My buddy in Wadena, MN told me on the phone the other night that there are 2 dairy dispersals every week in his area. Some guys are buying beef calves to feed and some are just walking away from livestock entirely and letting the croppers fist fight each other to rent the land. And some 60 to 70 year old guys are so attached to their cows that they are selling land to keep themselves afloat, hoping that prices go up, hemorrhaging cash and equity along the way. A lot of those cases, he said, will likely end up in bankruptcy and suicide as some have happened already. It is all the last generation producers getting out or losing their contracts. Processors don't want to mess with 30 or 40 cow herds anymore.

These are the guys they want milk from. Not just fill a tanker, but multiple tanker loads a day.
http://www.leadertelegram.com/News/Front-Page/2018/09/03/div-class-libPageBodyLinebreak-Bullish-on-Big-Dairy-div.html http://www.leadertelegram.com/News/Front-Page/2018/09/03/div-class-libPageBodyLinebreak-Bullish-on-Big-Dairy-div.html